Jay Allan, I just heard, I'm so sorry

Michael-Myers.net General Discussion
1

I just joined so I could say this to you.
Years ago I was very involved in the mask community, I loved it more then anything. One day I started realizing that things were changing, I’m not trying to bad mouth or start anything nasty, just trying to explain. A lot of people knew that CGP had recasted a lot of masks, it was kind of accepted, can’t make a real Myers without recasting a Kirk, however it seemed like no one was allowed to talk about this. Then one day I saw that Terry had become a mod here. I found this to be a conflict of interest right away. Suddenly I saw this mob mentality that Terry was god and every other mask maker except Nightowl was garbage. Prices kept rising and rising, I thought the quality was rubbish. Mask softener in the latex, hot glued hair, but still prices rose. I saw mask makers get torn apart verbally for daring to do the very thing that Terry had been doing, recasting a Kirk or Kirk copy and trying to offer a mask to the community. I loved that at the time, more options and more opportunity for more masks. But Terry and all his little followers just seemed hell bent on crushing anyone who tried to make a mask. I watched this amazing forum turn into some kind of CGP sub forum. It was sickening and really ruined the place for me, and eventually the hobby itself for me.

My love of horror brought me back here last night after years of staying away, even the new Zombie movies couldn’t bring me back here. Imagine my surprise when I see that suddenly the great Lambart has been shown to be the thief and liar many of us knew he was but were banned from talking about it. I feel awful that so many people lost money, but I saw it coming. He had a tight grip on the community and the community never seemed to realize it.

I’ve been reading a thread tonight (31 pages!) and I’ve read what happened to your original DP Kirk. I’m truly hurt by that and can’t express my condolences enough. You searched for years and it was such a big deal to have it. There were only 3 Kirks in the community that I knew about at the time and all of them were considered grails.

I’m terribly sorry for your loss Jay, the whole community suffered because of it, but of course you most of all. I haven’t gotten to page 31 yet so I don’t know how this story ends just yet but I just wanted to say how sorry I am that happened to you. You’re a good person and you didn’t deserve that, no one does.

Though I am glad to see CGP has finally revealed it’s true colors and I think I’m glad I left before the drama really started hitting the fan. I don’t think this community is ever going to be like it was, too much damage has been done and that’s sad because 5-6 years ago this place was really something truly special, 3 years ago not so much.

I hope you find your mask Jay, I really do. You deserve it back after you spent so long looking for it.

I’m glad that the snake has finally revealed itself as the snake many people knew he was. Recasting is considered such a crime in this community it always really bothered me that he recasted Justins mask and everyone just looked the other way. Then the part 6 and the part 3 masks and still everyone just ignored it. That’s not right, it was never right and it’s one of the reasons I left the community.

It took forever for you to find your Kirk, I hope it finds it’s way back to you. If I were a praying man, my prayers would be with you.

This will probably be my only post here, I just wanted to let you know how sorry I am that happened to you and I figure that here is probably the best chance for this to reach you.

Good day Sir.

2

So the great Terry used to Recast? I thought that was a big No No? And IF he did recast, why didn’t people shun this?

Just Curious. :confused:

3

Thanks for the post, and yes its true all the way down to the bannings I remember… sounds all to current and familiar !!!

Thanks for the post.

4

Like I said ,Terry was treated like god.Some are given a pass on recasting and some are shunned forever.This is not fair.Everyone should be treated equally.I was not around then but the Terry supporters who knew he recasted and praised him and bought his products should be ashamed…

5

indeed the whole CGP hay day and fall out both are a slap to the face for the hobby. now i wasnt around when Terry was ‘King’, but i have been around long enough to have had a sucessful business transaction with him and also have him take my money on his way out the door. now his warlock was a gem stone when it came out (recasted?) and is still considered a great H2 mask but honestly when i discovered the scene in early 08 there were already a handful of new mask makers whos work caught my eye far over terry’s work.
and honestly today, there are far better replicas and so many more options then there were even when i joined.
like you said Don, Terry has always apparently been shady to some extent so its good that he is out of the loop now and far more talented mask makers have entered the game.
there is still drama here and afew problems from time to time but over all its not that bad. and as far as more accurate masks being available, it just keeps getting better.
i know alot of senior members talk about the ‘good ole days’ but honestly back in 03 or 04 was there not ever any bickering, argueing, bashing, not ever any problems?
i seriously doubt that. there might not have been as many instances as today because for 1. there were alot less members and tighter clicks 2. there were ALOT less masks to debate on which is the best.
while you have to take the bad with the good, i feel there is alot more good here and worth it to me to stick around for the love of horror icons/props.
its worth it to me to put up with day to day drama for the knowledge of the hobby and seeing whats the next most accurate peice coming around the corner.

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Agreed 100%. And if you go back 10 years, it was even better. It’s been all downhill, and for several varying reasons.

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Yes he recasted I believe the NMM from Nightowl and that’s what became the Nemesis, ever wonder why the Nemesis is shaped like that? The way the neck kicks to one side? Maybe it was that Justin lent him the Kirkus and he made a clay press, but I don’t think so. Justin was mad when he found out and that’s not the reaction of someone who gave permission. The backroom dealings I heard about at the time were that Justin confronted him and Terry agreed to pay a percentage for each mask sold, that he paid a couple times, then never paid again. I did hear he bought a hot tub though, but who can really be sure. I know Justin was upset. This was many years ago though when the community was smaller and it was easier to find out what was really going on behind the scenes. TL also recasted the SSN 6 and the DP H3 masks. SSN confronted him on the 6 and I believe he destroyed the mold. Terry is not and was never a real sculptor mask maker, he was a hack who did decent hairwork, though he took insane shortcuts like hot gluing the hair instead of bonding it with latex. Justin on the other hand was/is phenominally talented and deserves all the credit he got.

of course back then if you said anything like this, you were banned. Though shall not speak ill of the Terry seemed to be the rule of the day. That’s why once he was a mod here I left the community all together, he ruined the hobby. Drove prices through the roof. Do you really know how much hair and latex costs? It’s really not expensive, there’s no reasons for prices to have skyrocketed like they did. It was a sad day watching the community seemingly become taken over.

I don’t wish a sickness like the one Terry seems to have on anybody however, that’s a horrible thing. But reading tonight about Jays mask infuriated me. All I could think was, “didn’t he rob the community enough? He ruined it, wasn’t that enough?”

It was like people just had blinders on and refused to see what was in front of them. Mask softener in a masks latex just makes the mask rot faster. Hot glue is a cheap, fast and sloppy way to do hair, no matter how nicely you brush and hairspray it into place when you’re done. People were paying outrageous prices for a recasted inferior product. It was very sad and I just couldn’t watch it anymore.

Perhaps I’ve said too much. I just wanted to express to Jay how shocked and upset I am to hear about the fate of his Kirk. When it hit the community at the time there was so much happiness you’d think everyone had just had a baby. There was also the Kirkus and I believe the Chan at the time. But the Jay kirk, there was just something special about it.

Very sad indeed.

I’m sorry to see so many people have been taken for a ride, but he seemed like a lying scam artist back then so I’m really not surprised. I have no idea who the new guys are or what the popular masks are at the moment, but I always had insane respect for Justin. That man has an insane amount of skill, he doesn’t take shortcuts, and he really seems to care about his product and reputation. It always bothered me that suddenly he was competing with a hack.

But again, this is all old stuff from years ago, stuff I haven’t thought of in years and I’ve been happy not to.

I hope everyone gets what they’re owed, especially Jay. Jay and Billy Kirkus have always been very honorable members of this community and you guys are lucky to have them.

Everyone play nice now, being a Myers fan can make you crazy.

8

I have to agree with the way things were - when I first started coming here, everyone seemed closer and it was just a great time in the community–I would just come here and read posts for hours and it wasn’t like it is - or has been for the last, oh say, 3 - 4 years. Now its just a really negative community - accusations going around, inflated prices, and more deception then ever. I mean, the pluses are there: more accurate masks and a larger community but that just aids the negative sides: more accuracy allows the mask makers to charge a premium and the larger community allows for more scams and scam artists, not to mention that its gotten large enough to awake the sleeping giant of Trancas. :confused:

That being said, it seems like the guy who’s really lost out alot has been Justin. The guy has been nothing but a stand up, class act and, together with a few others (like Sean Clark and Billy Kirkus) are the reasons we’re even here today, meanwhile everyone and their mother has practically stolen and made money off Justin’s stuff (the Nightmare, NMM, etc)… Im really surprised, and glad, that after all this shit he hasnt walked away from this, because I sure would have long ago.

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word

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Not mentioning any names, but this exact same situation seems to be happening all over again with a maker here in our community. People are being shunned for making masks all except for one artist.

11

If I could offer any advice since I haven’t been here in years and have no vested interest one way or the other.

None of these mask makers are your friends. Don’t try to think of them as your friend, they are not your friend. They’re a sub-contractor you hire to do a job, a somewhat artistic job, but a job. You’re basically commissioning an art piece. That’s the trap, you think they’re your friend but they’re not. That’s how teams and cliques and all that stupid crap starts happening. Make them compete for your dollar and your attention. And no maker should be a mod on this board. This board has got to remain neutral and a place where people can be free to talk, compare, disagree, and not have to worry about being banned or having their negative view deleted.

You have the power as a community but you’ve really got to organize and I’m sorry but probably do a little boycotting until they start to listen to you. You people are being fleeced and taken advantage of in your giddy excitement to own a new mask, AND THEY KNOW THAT! That’s why this keeps happening to you. (the collective you.) If you all collectively insist that you’ll only pay a deposit on the mask and you’ll pay the rest once the mask is done you’re risking much less. On top of that I understand that supplies are expensive, but these guys aren’t poor like you think they are, they can afford supplies and if they can’t maybe they shouldn’t be making masks. Have the makers do runs of 5, not 30. Once 5 are done, ship em out. Not only will you get masks much faster, the level of quality and attention to detail will be much better because they’re not painting a huge batch at a time.

Somehow you’ve all got to come together as a collective community and put your foot down. If you stop buying masks for a little while, say a month or two, all of these makers are going to start listening to your demands. Maybe you could get in touch with members on the other mask collecting boards and work together. I don’t know, I don’t know how fractured things are.

Most importantly remember no matter how nice and friendly or how often you see them on the boards, the makers are not your friends. They are out to sell you a product and to make the most profit on that product that they can. Somethings got to be done and nothing will happen until you the fans can all work together.

If you think a guy who sells a couple hundred Myers masks a year is still a big fan like you are, watching Halloween 1 & 2 (the good ones :smiley: ) every weekend you’re wrong. Most of them are sick of looking at that same white face. This is a business.

Really sad to see what’s happened but I had a feeling it was coming which is why I left, I didn’t want to see it happen.

Also sad to see that after reading all 31 pages of that thread concerning the missing masks and Jays Kirk that there was no conclusion at the end of the thread. So I’m assuming you guys still havent gotten your masks 6 months after the last post was made in that thread. Which is terrible and I feel bad for all of you. And I went to Jays site and looked at the before/after pics, and I gotta say ignoring the hair, that does not look like the same mask at all, the eyes are different, and not different in a ‘the mask is stretched’ kind of way, they look like different eye cuts and the details are softer, and most importantly the latex thickness looks different at the eye hole. I’m sure if Jay takes the foam fill out of the mask…actually he’s probably allready done that, Jays a smart guy. It looks like a recast, and coming from Terry that’s pretty much what I’d expect from him. I’m curious what’s happened with Jay and apparently what turned into a lawsuit to find his Kirk, I was really hoping there’d be some kind of happy ending at the end of that thread but I guess not.

I really do wish you all the best of luck, I have a lot of good memories from here and it’s sad to see things have come to this. I miss some of the old mask makers that were chased away, I looked through the gallery today and it brought back some nice memories. It does you guys no good to only have one or two “popular” makers, they set whatever price they want and then you just wait to get it, and wait, and wait. You should want and demand more competition so that you have more options for choice. Don’t try and be buddy buddy with a mask maker, be buddies with your fellow fans and join together.

Or continue to keep getting ripped off individually. It’s really almost simple when you look at it that way. The Cliques should be cliques of Myers fans, not cliques of Mask Maker fans. All you’re doing is hurting yourself.

Good luck to you all.

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Reading all that just made me realy sad.

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Big wall of text. sorry about that, but in hindsight I’ve had years to ponder what went wrong without having the distraction of being in the community anymore.

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The text isn’t an issue my friend. It’s the content. I enjoy coming here every day and yes despise all the negativity. I hate to think that in a hobby such as this that we can’t be unified in the same goal for our love of the the franchise and the mask itself. I seem to forget that this is indeed a business. And that money is the bottom line. Sad but true.

15

Of course there was, we’re Myers fans. But I can say that I don’t recall posts/threads ever having to be approved by a mod before they’re posted on the board, maybe it’s just me because I just signed up. But if things are to the point where each thread needs approval before it’s posted then things have gotten pretty bad. And once this turned into the CGP sub-forum it wasn’t a fun place to be anymore because you really couldn’t talk about anything other then how awesome Terry was, and if you disagreed you made to feel very uncomfortable. Even to the point of the lying, thieving mod himself picking on people while his synchophants cheered him on. It was sad to see.

You really think so? You don’t really think all those masks in the gallery were the only ones around do you? There were others too. I’ve actually never understood why some masks made it in the gallery and others didn’t, maybe it was a favoritism thing. Was surprised today to see the CGP recast SSN 6 is in the Gallery, but that’s how things were then, the rules didn’t apply to CGP, just everyone else. I understand completely why Justin was pissed over some of Terry’s behavior, Justin is the real deal.

You also don’t/didn’t see Justin on his board too much trying to be buddies with his board members. He’s a professional and he acts like one. I don’t know what he’s like now but I’m willing to bet he’s still a pretty class act.

The fans need to break themselves of the habit of thinking of one maker as cooler then another and trying to be buddies with that maker. You should be buddies with each other. At the end of the day I’m sorry but the maker does not care about you, but another fan that you talk to might actually become a real friend.

I’ve allready posted 4 posts then I meant too though on this topic, I really just want to wish Jay good luck, but at the same time I want to wish you all good luck. It’s a great hobby, but it’s future is in your hands, not theres. They have no future in this business without you.

16

Boy, the tail end of 1997 seems so far away now. That’s when there was only one forum to speak of, and that was “The Back Talk” board. Oh, how times have changed. :cry:

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Oh dude, thats only for new members. . . nothing i post is evaluated. … its because we had an influx of spammers, bots etc

lol

Justin is still the same class act. . i was just briefly chatting with him. .
Same professional bro.

A

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last time i saw justin face to face ya he was a class act still :smiley:

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I know who you’re talking about…Mr. , nevermind everyone knows who it is

20

This is all so true.Mods claim to be neutral but if you post negative comments about certain mask makers or you dont praise their work it gets deleted…People should be allowed to speak out as long as its done in a good manner without it being deleted instantly…When it gets to the point of waiting a year or longer on a mask and people still defend the mask maker,it really urks me.People need to open their eyes sometimes.