The "Don Post" Theory

HeCameHome383 · February 2, 2018, 4:38pm

Possibly one of the biggest movie marketing mistakes ever. If the filmmakers had gotten a percentage of sales, they probably would’ve made some dough.

thedesertsandman · February 2, 2018, 5:30pm

Yeah but with botched eyeholes most likely.

spottieottie · February 9, 2018, 3:37am

So is it finally settled as fact, that don post did not make the the masks?

TheGhostlyShape · February 9, 2018, 5:02am

No. But the evidence, in my opinion, points towards that conclusion.

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spottieottie · February 9, 2018, 10:50am

Some more evidence, for if theres any people that still believe dps made the hero
in this picture you can see the hair line rip where they ripped off the side burns, definitely not the work of a professional.
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flamin_Tramer · February 9, 2018, 12:05pm

I believe the eyebrows and sideburns were removed on set after the alleged DPS masks were delivered? (This would require a bit of extra spray afterwards).

Also the hair looks extra ‘blond in patches’ here. Or maybe that’s white spray spatter?

spottieottie · February 9, 2018, 3:36pm

except that it isnt. you can see undeniable blonde in the hair throughout the movie, whats your theory for fleshtones?

killerpsychomask · February 10, 2018, 12:20pm

Precarious:

There has been a claim on the forum that Don Post Studios made the mask(s) for the original Halloween. I’m having trouble accepting this theory, and it’s a pretty big divergence from the previously accepted narrative that Tommy Lee Wallace has told for decades. I haven’t heard any compelling evidence for this theory, and it seems to be based around claims Don Post Studios made in a 1999 court battle with Cinema Secrets for the rights to “Michael Myers”; a case in which they not only lost, but presents an obvious bias for this claim. Otherwise, I’ve only seen people try to prove this with the mere opinion that the Hero seems to be made better than the other two masks; which is not very compelling “evidence” if you ask me.

Can anyone present their case for this theory?

I’d like someone to present a case for this theory (supporting evidence, quotes, photos, sources, etc.) because I don’t believe it’s even close to substantiated by any of the evidence we’ve been presented with so far. It’s seemingly becoming accepted as plausible, and if false, will complicate our perception of the mask. I have no reason to doubt Tommy Lee Wallace’s original story, so I ask, can someone present me with why I should?

Evidence Submitted So Far –

1. Don Post says they were consulted to make the original masks.

This was only revealed during one of Don Post’s court cases battling for the rights to the Shape mask against Cinema Secrets in 1999. This can not be stated as evidence, as their intention to secure the rights to a mask they did not own is an apparent and obvious bias.

https://www.famousmonsters.com/exclusive-a-history-of-don-post-studios/:

When I discussed this lawsuit with Don Post Jr., he told me that it was necessary in order to firmly establish who owned what when it came to Michael Myers. As he put it, “Everyone wanted a piece of the pie, and Michael Myers was a big pie.”

It is also possible that these people are mistaking their experience from Halloween II for the original. I somewhat doubt that a low budget 1970s slasher flick would have consulted a mask studio, considering a history of low budget slashers using cheap store bought masks (even altering them sometimes). This was merely a trend of the time.

2. The eye cuts are too good to be done without experience, and were probably done by an industry professional from Don Post.

I don’t believe it is difficult to enlarge the eye cuts on a mask. We may feel they are difficult because, in our community, we are trying to replicate the original mask. Replicating eye cuts can be tedious and attention oriented to get the right form and shape, but simply cutting a larger rim around the eyes of a mask is not necessarily difficult.

3. It’s possible that the hero mask’s hair is dark to it’s roots, suggesting different hair than the original Kirk hair was used. A Don Post employee must have used dark hair.

Even if the hair is indeed dark all the way through, that is not sufficient evidence. It is possible that the hair colorant Tommy Lee Wallace may have used could seep through the hair and set more thoroughly on the mask seen today. It is heavily suggested through the behind the scenes photos that the hair was not consistent on the original mask, and reveals a lighter color underneath (as if it was misted over the top and styled). I might also mention the old theory, that the hair was removed and semi-dyed when the mask was “converted”, as a possible explanation, though i don’t subscribe to it personally.

4. The mask may be thicker than most Kirk’s, suggesting it was specially made by Don Post.

The owner of the hero mask recently stated that the mask seems thicker than most replicas are. I would suggest that there is no standard thickness for original Kirk masks. When you cast masks, they are going to have a little variation throughout the production of them. Latex also stiffens and hardens as it ages, appearing thicker and more durable than in it’s original flexible and flaccid state.

I’m going to keep this photo attached to this thread so we remember what Don Post Studios has concocted when asked to make a Shape mask in the early 80s. The results are, needless to say, strange and dissatisfying.

Excellent post and I quite agree.

flamin_Tramer · February 11, 2018, 12:09am

To clarify: I don’t take the DPS Theory as truth. But there are a few odd things about the photos we have access to that lead me to think it is at least plausible. More evidence from the current state of the Hero’s hair would change things.

There’s only one point in the film where the Hero’s hair looks suspiciously blond underneath:

Having sprayed a blond-haired mask brown, I can tell you you’d need to use a lot of spray and be extremely thorough to cover it to the point that blond wouldn’t be revealed every time it was brushed.

(Not sure that Kirks were originally -that- blond to begin with. They seem to be a med-light brown in many vintage photos.)

Under white light it’s still a pretty solid looking dusty brown:

But then you have this shot:

It’s really the blood tears stunt mask that has me puzzled:

Did they really spray it so well, that even a lost tuft doesn’t reveal the ‘original’ hair color in the roots?

TheGhostlyShape · February 11, 2018, 3:43am

flamin' Tramer:

mammer:

flamin' Tramer:

I believe the eyebrows and sideburns were removed on set after the alleged DPS masks were delivered? (This would require a bit of extra spray afterwards).

Also the hair looks extra ‘blond in patches’ here. Or maybe that’s white spray spatter?

except that it isn’t. you can see undeniable blonde in the hair throughout the movie, whats your theory for fleshtones?

To clarify: I don’t take the DPS Theory as truth. But there are a few odd things about the photos we have access to that lead me to think it is at least plausible. More evidence from the current state of the Hero’s hair would change things.

There’s only one point in the film where the Hero’s hair looks suspiciously blond underneath:

Having sprayed a blond-haired mask brown, I can tell you you’d need to use a lot of spray and be extremely thorough to cover it to the point that blond wouldn’t be revealed every time it was brushed.

(Not sure that Kirks were originally -that- blond to begin with. They seem to be a med-light brown in many vintage photos.)

Under white light it’s still a pretty solid looking dusty brown:

But then you have this shot:

It’s really the blood tears stunt mask that has me puzzled:

Did they really spray it so well, that even a lost tuft doesn’t reveal the ‘original’ hair color in the roots?

The stunt mask is what gets me on the whole thing. There are many pictures of it where the hair is black all the way.

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TheGhostlyShape · February 11, 2018, 3:54am

flamin' Tramer:

mammer:

flamin' Tramer:

I believe the eyebrows and sideburns were removed on set after the alleged DPS masks were delivered? (This would require a bit of extra spray afterwards).

Also the hair looks extra ‘blond in patches’ here. Or maybe that’s white spray spatter?

except that it isn’t. you can see undeniable blonde in the hair throughout the movie, whats your theory for fleshtones?

To clarify: I don’t take the DPS Theory as truth. But there are a few odd things about the photos we have access to that lead me to think it is at least plausible. More evidence from the current state of the Hero’s hair would change things.

There’s only one point in the film where the Hero’s hair looks suspiciously blond underneath:

Having sprayed a blond-haired mask brown, I can tell you you’d need to use a lot of spray and be extremely thorough to cover it to the point that blond wouldn’t be revealed every time it was brushed.

(Not sure that Kirks were originally -that- blond to begin with. They seem to be a med-light brown in many vintage photos.)

Under white light it’s still a pretty solid looking dusty brown:

But then you have this shot:

It’s really the blood tears stunt mask that has me puzzled:

Did they really spray it so well, that even a lost tuft doesn’t reveal the ‘original’ hair color in the roots?

The stunt mask is what gets me on the whole thing. There are many pictures of it where the hair is black all the way.

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Serpent90 · February 12, 2018, 1:49am

Here is an interview with Rob Tharp about the Myers masks. Courtesy of Joshua Warren from Vintage Don Post Studios Masks FB group.

TheGhostlyShape · February 12, 2018, 2:22am

It’s already established what they have said, though.

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Serpent90 · February 12, 2018, 2:44am

He just posted this. Thought maybe you guys would like to read it.

flamin_Tramer · February 12, 2018, 8:32am

‘Dirty and gross looking’ could well describe the schoolyard mask. Hard to tell the state from that tiny wrap-party photo.
The hair on that one looks like it’s been misted with a single small can of hair color, as opposed to being thoroughly coated. That fits with Tommy Lee Wallace’s description of the initial conversion process.

Interesting that he does make a distinction between Halloween and Halloween II, and only mentions one extra being made (could be two, as he wasn’t directly involved). Do we have a quote from Bill?

TheGhostlyShape · February 23, 2018, 7:28pm

Resurrecting this with some questions. I had a discussion with a recent member

In this photo:

That vintage kirk hair has a very unique sheen to it, so has anyone thought maybe it isn’t a blonde streak, but instead light reflecting off the hair?

Also something else brought to my attention. If you look at the sideburn glue lines in this photo:

You can see that the dark hair and glue lines is on top of the white paint. This would mean it was haired after being painted white, consistent with the DPS theory.

Any ideas or thoughts about these?

spottieottie · February 23, 2018, 10:14pm

Yeah light reflection doesn’t take form in a single clean strip like that. It’s also already established you see blonde in the Hair throughout the movie. As far as the glue I’m not sure

TheGhostlyShape · February 23, 2018, 10:48pm

I’m not sure what zooming in on the hair is for, but it most certainly could be a reflection. It’s not in a clean strip either- it fades in and out and is a little wavy.

It don’t think it’s been established, and it certainly hasn’t been proven. Maybe once it looks like it could be blonde underneath, but other than that I don’t see it very much.

I’d like to know your thoughts on the seemingly professional finish on the stunt mask, as well.

EDIT: To be clear I don’t know which side to believe. I flip-flop quite often on the subject. I’m just trying to present arguments for both sides so I am not biased.

spottieottie · February 23, 2018, 11:11pm

TheGhostlyShape:

mammer:

Yeah light reflection doesn’t take form in a single clean strip like that.
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I’m not sure what zooming in on the hair is for, but it most certainly could be a reflection. It’s not in a clean strip either- it fades in and out and is a little wavy.

mammer:

It’s also already established you see blonde in the Hair throughout the movie.

It don’t think it’s been established, and it certainly hasn’t been proven. Maybe once it looks like it could be blonde underneath, but other than that I don’t see it very much.

I’d like to know your thoughts on the seemingly professional finish on the stunt mask, as well.

EDIT: To be clear I don’t know which side to believe. I flip-flop quite often on the subject. I’m just trying to present arguments for both sides so I am not biased.

What do you mean why did I zoom in? To help prove my point. Look at the beginning of the hair, its very very contrast and prominent. Reflection doesn’t work like that, especially just a normal shot taken outside, you would have to be shinning light on it from a very weird angle and distance. light doesn’t solidly attach to one part of something.
And as far as I’m concerned, I see parts of the hair that is blonde, especially this shot. I see blonde in all masks being worn here.

I feel there’s more evidence that supports the tlw theory, the flesh tone that is undeniably shown on the mask is solid enough for me that don post did not make the hero

TheGhostlyShape · February 23, 2018, 11:30pm

I meant what I asked. Zooming in didn’t do anything except make it more pixelated so it’s harder to see the detail in the photo. Bottom line there’s no way to prove whether or not it is flash or blonde hair.

The “light doesn’t work like that” argument isn’t necessarily true. Look at where the strip in the hair leads- straight to the hand where nick is holding it by the hair, meaning that that particular strip of hair is at a different angle then the rest which could make it catch the light while the rest didn’t.

Do you have any other shots where you think you may see blonde?

We know what blonde hair misted black looks like, we can see this on the SY mask, mask A in the following photo. The other stunt mask, Mask B in the picture, has very dark hair and a pretty much even paint coat with the exception of the neck, slightly (suggesting a professional hairing and paint job). Then we have the Hero, mask C. Look at the hair on it. It looks much closer to mask “B” than it does mask “A”.

Also the neck paint rubbing off used to be one of the factors that made me flip flop on theories, but think about it. Even if it was painted by DPS this by no means indicates that the paint they used was higher quality than the white paint they used on their other mass produced masks. The paint could have easily rubbed off with how much it was handled and worn on set.

This post is more of a stream of consciousness so sorry if it jumps and doesn’t make sense at some points lmao.