Castle Walk Question

[NagandEmerald]

Your reading is incorrect. Loomis speaks in Carpenter’s words. He intended for Michael to be the Boogeyman, not just a mentally-ill human being. Your take is Rob Zombie’s.


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Not really. John Carpenter’s intent was for The Shape to be evil on two legs, purely and simply that. The Boogeyman. Michael Myers himself was always a mentally ill psycho, little more than a 6 year old boy found in the front yard of his childhood house with a bloody knife and a dead sister. People like Michael Myers do exist IRL in the sense of those patterns of behaviour. Those behaviours from Michael scared Loomis to the point that he no longer saw Michael Myers as his patient to take care of. He saw him as evil, both in the literal and metaphorical sense; he wasn’t a man in a mask, let alone his patient, but something more. Hell, the fact that Loomis in H2 1981 straight up monologues about “tribes”, Celtic rituals, and Samhain to anyone who will listen is just proof of that alone; again, it’s no wonder why no one took Loomis seriously when he talked about his own patient that he was meant to be helping like that.

We know Michael Myers is mentally ill simply by the way he acts; his behaviours have clearly definable patterns, most notably in the broadest sense: voluntary catatonia and voluntary mutism, voyeurism and stalking, going home, killing on Halloween night, wearing a one-piece suit and a mask to do his killing in, putting his victims’ bodies on display. The way he walks and moves is like a predator. That is not normal, healthy behaviour patterns, and those kinds of behaviours altogether are quite convincing rationale to try and rationalize him as evil instead of trying to actually understand what’s going on in his head (we don’t need to, narratively speaking). You can be both evil and mentally ill. But he defies psychological understanding. He defies the conventions of what it means to be mentally ill, both at the time and now (Sartain had 15 clinical psychiatrists, not including himself and Doctor Loomis, actually attempt to figure him out, and each one had differing diagnoses). I don’t respect Rob Zombie’s take explicitly because it gives us too much information on the “why” and “who” of Michael Myers the person, and what his motivations are, but Rob Zombie did one thing right in putting it to rest that Michael Myers IS mentally ill.

And, of course, John Carpenter’s primary inspiration was seeing a 14, 15 year old give him that blank, pale, emotionless stare in the bowels of a psych ward. Checkmate.

Michael IS NOT a Psychotic human, he’s only a force of nature, people take this far too seriously and try way too hard to humanize fiction

From a narrative standpoint, yes. He is: a Force of Nature, Evil on Two Legs, nothing even remotely human. But he’s still a man. Michael Myers is a deranged spree killer who killed 4 people in 1978, and his sister in 1963. But, you are correct in summarizing his narrative role as a force of nature, as malefic as a tornado or huricane, something that comes on Halloween Night and disappears like a fickle, autumn wind. His idea is a force of nature. But Michael Myers himself is human, flesh and blood, just as much as Charlie Bowls in Russelvile, or Ted Bundy or any number of monstrous psychopaths. That’s what I was getting at. We’re not supposed to know his motives, or his rationale, or his emotions. Michael works best as an allegory over a substantiated character. But it is important to remember that he is human.

[Space_Mage]

Not really. John Carpenter’s intent was for The Shape to be evil on two legs, purely and simply that. The Boogeyman. Michael Myers himself was always a mentally ill psycho, little more than a 6 year old boy found in the front yard of his childhood house with a bloody knife and a dead sister. People like Michael Myers do exist IRL in the sense of those patterns of behaviour. Those behaviours from Michael scared Loomis to the point that he no longer saw Michael Myers as his patient to take care of. He saw him as evil, both in the literal and metaphorical sense; he wasn’t a man in a mask, let alone his patient, but something more. Hell, the fact that Loomis in H2 1981 straight up monologues about “tribes”, Celtic rituals, and Samhain to anyone who will listen is just proof of that alone; again, it’s no wonder why no one took Loomis seriously when he talked about his own patient that he was meant to be helping like that.

We know Michael Myers is mentally ill simply by the way he acts; his behaviours have clearly definable patterns, most notably in the broadest sense: voluntary catatonia and voluntary mutism, voyeurism and stalking, going home, killing on Halloween night, wearing a one-piece suit and a mask to do his killing in, putting his victims’ bodies on display. The way he walks and moves is like a predator. That is not normal, healthy behaviour patterns, and those kinds of behaviours altogether are quite convincing rationale to try and rationalize him as evil instead of trying to actually understand what’s going on in his head (we don’t need to, narratively speaking). You can be both evil and mentally ill. But he defies psychological understanding. He defies the conventions of what it means to be mentally ill, both at the time and now (Sartain had 15 clinical psychiatrists, not including himself and Doctor Loomis, actually attempt to figure him out, and each one had differing diagnoses). I don’t respect Rob Zombie’s take explicitly because it gives us too much information on the “why” and “who” of Michael Myers the person, and what his motivations are, but Rob Zombie did one thing right in putting it to rest that Michael Myers IS mentally ill.

And, of course, John Carpenter’s primary inspiration was seeing a 14, 15 year old give him that blank, pale, emotionless stare in the bowels of a psych ward. Checkmate.

Michael IS NOT a Psychotic human, he’s only a force of nature, people take this far too seriously and try way too hard to humanize fiction

From a narrative standpoint, yes. He is: a Force of Nature, Evil on Two Legs, nothing even remotely human. But he’s still a man. Michael Myers is a deranged spree killer who killed 4 people in 1978, and his sister in 1963. But, you are correct in summarizing his narrative role as a force of nature, as malefic as a tornado or huricane, something that comes on Halloween Night and disappears like a fickle, autumn wind. His idea is a force of nature. But Michael Myers himself is human, flesh and blood, just as much as Charlie Bowls in Russelvile, or Ted Bundy or any number of monstrous psychopaths. That’s what I was getting at. We’re not supposed to know his motives, or his rationale, or his emotions. Michael works best as an allegory over a substantiated character. But it is important to remember that he is human.

He isn’t human, he’s “The Shape”

[NagandEmerald]

Michael IS NOT a Psychotic human, he’s only a force of nature, people take this far too seriously and try way too hard to humanize fiction

From a narrative standpoint, yes. He is: a Force of Nature, Evil on Two Legs, nothing even remotely human. But he’s still a man. Michael Myers is a deranged spree killer who killed 4 people in 1978, and his sister in 1963. But, you are correct in summarizing his narrative role as a force of nature, as malefic as a tornado or huricane, something that comes on Halloween Night and disappears like a fickle, autumn wind. His idea is a force of nature. But Michael Myers himself is human, flesh and blood, just as much as Charlie Bowls in Russelvile, or Ted Bundy or any number of monstrous psychopaths. That’s what I was getting at. We’re not supposed to know his motives, or his rationale, or his emotions. Michael works best as an allegory over a substantiated character. But it is important to remember that he is human.

He isn’t human, he’s “The Shape”

And then you also have "Michael Myers (Age 23) and “Michael Myers (Age 6)”. The idea of The Shape, or Michael Myers as we see him, isn’t human. You’re right on that. But Michael Myers the killer, the child on the front lawn, the mental patient, is just a man.

[uncle1]

The mortal injuries he sustains in the canon timeline suggest he is anything but human. That is why the contradictory nature of throwing him into a glorified meat grinder made little sense at best. Either he is a human like you and I and can die from being shot and stabbed multiple times, or, as canon shows, he is unable to be killed by what would kill a human and is thus something other

[NagandEmerald]

Well, that’s the thing. There’s implied supernatural ability to Michael, but even in the context of the first film, his disappearing acts are very much explainable, with the exception of one: the sheets scene.

Further, Michael’s injuries he sustained were likely not lethal. In the canon timeline, it’s implied that Michael suffers from congenital insensitivity to pain. There is no clear answer, and that’s the beauty of it: The Shape defies logic or reason, defies explanation. There’s implied supernatural ability, but it’s not outright stated.

[Nightstalker]

Saying that Michael Myers is just an insane human being is like saying that Batman is just a rich ninja. Both are oversimplifications born of ignorance of the character’s design and purpose.


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[NagandEmerald]

Saying that Michael Myers is just an insane human being is like saying that Batman is just a rich ninja. Both are oversimplifications born of ignorance of the character’s design and purpose.


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Again. Michael Myers, the man, is just an insane human being. Michael Myers, as elevated by Loomis, as elevated by his presence, as elevated by what he represents, is more than human. As a symbol, Michael Myers is more powerful than any knife to the chest. It’s what makes Halloween a good boogeyman story: you can interpret Michael’s presence literally, narratively, or as a story of the same caliber as “the man with the hook for a hand”. I think you all are misunderstanding that, when I refer to Michael Myers as a human being, I mean so in the literal sense. his purpose in the story is greater than that, elevated by Loomis’ story of the 6 year old chikd with the Devil’s Eyes, or in how he seemingly moves like a ghost, or in how there is obliviousness to his overarching presence in Haddonfield.

Michael Myers “The Shape” is very much that utter personification of pure and simple evil. It will always change. Charlie Boels, Corey Cunningham, you, me. We can all be The Shape in some way or another. But Michael Myers is absolutely just a man. I don’t like Halloween Ends. But the idea of it exploring Evil changing shape is poetic to the idea of Michael Myers as an icon, over that of a man. Michael’s a man with mental issues and an insensitivity or lack of care to pain or hinderance. The Shape will always remain though. When he puts on that mask, when he kills on Halloween Night, he’s more than that.

[zac_crook]

It always struck me that Castle literally just walks and doesn’t try to do anything fancy. He even hurries a bit across the street when he’s after Laurie (another reason the robotic walking trope is weird). That’s where all the other actors have gone wrong (for my tastes) - they try to be “scary Michael Myers”.

“Just walk, Nick.” - John Carpenter

[NagandEmerald]

It always struck me that Castle literally just walks and doesn’t try to do anything fancy. He even hurries a bit across the street when he’s after Laurie (another reason the robotic walking trope is weird). That’s where all the other actors have gone wrong (for my tastes) - they try to be “scary Michael Myers”.

“Just walk, Nick.” - John Carpenter

This is probably the best way to go about it. Just walk. The only thing you really need to remember is not to swing your arms too much, and walk with a bit of a glide when you’re moving a little slower. Otherwise, it’s not that you’re becoming a robot. It’s that you’re moving in such a relaxed, nonchalant manner that it becomes eerie.