A question that still needs to be answered…Who made which mask in H1?
We all know the classic story on how TLW purchased the 75 and converted it into the Hero. Years later we hear the story on how Bill Malone was asked to make some back ups for the set and that one of them ended up being the Stunt mask in the film. As home video had upgraded to HD the past several years, many have come to think that the Stunt mask was actually the “original” mask that was converted by TLW.
What we see in the school scene is a very crude looking mask with a very rough finish. With that and noticing the extremely rough eye cuts which can bee seen in the still photos(Provided by Billy Kirkus) lead alot of us to think that this was the work of an amateur, not from a proffessional employee at DP studios. At the time I believed this theory also and had a read an interview with Malone stating he was the creator of the Hero.
Looking back at the stunt mask now, I’ve noticed some key elements that lead me to rethink this theory.
The Stunt mask is known for it’s rather bigger eye cuts, crude and not as nice as the Hero. Then there’s the obvious dark eyebrows.
Obviously what can be seen on the eyebrows are remains/residue of glue, hair and fleshtones.
Now why is that?
When Malone made the back-ups for H1, remember he kept one for himself. I’m assuming the back-ups he sent to TLW were ALL done like this.
Supposedly when these arrived on set, either TLW or someone had ripped the eyebrows and side burns from the masks to match the original Hero. The stuff seen on the eyebrows could be the remains of what I mentioned above or that the paint had pealed off during the process of matching the Hero.
You can even notice how big and crude the eye cuts are on this mask, very similar to the Stunt mask.
Then there’s the infamous GAP or missing hair. You can notice the gap was there from H1 and it just got bigger by the time they used it for H2. Obviously that gap was created when the side burns were torn off when the mask had arrived to the set. It’s as if that part was missed since hair/sideburns had been there when the mask was painted at DP studios.
I pretty much now believe the Hero was indeed created by TLW.
It would be great if someone went to the con and asked TLW if he remembers modifing the back ups from DP to match the Hero.
This is an excellent thread, TK! I’m still not sure that I’m convinced that Wallace made the hero, however, you raise some intriguing points. I’m looking forward to the information that this thread is sure to produce. Nice job once again on the thread!
I’ve often doubted that, John, Tommy and Nick gathered around and conspired a theory to give all the credit to, Tommy. It does make sense that, John would ask Tommy to go find a few masks, he did and in that small moment, not knowing or having one fraction of a clue that this childs mask would become such a classic that we made it to be, they hoped, we the fans made it/confirmed it a classic.
20, 30 years later (after all the success) it makes sense that all of a sudden other people want to be part of, be the one who painted it, knows the guy who did so when in fact, It makes minimal sense for John and Tommy to not only lie but risk being sued for lying about how the hero (Michael Myers mask) came to be. I doubt, John could give a $hit how the mask came about just as long as the movie he was in charge of was good. He doesn’t strike me as the type to carry a 30 year lie with such commitment just for ol, Tommy.
Sometimes people want the most simplest of things complicated when if fact, it’s pretty much as stated by, John and, Nick… And Tommy in that "hey I drove along Hollywood blvd, found a few masks, tore off the eye brows and sideburns and painted it fish belly white and bang!. Only 25+ years later and after all the success of 78 do some want to take credit for an unknown moment of lighting in a bottle… To me anyway.
Clear shot of the Hero. You can see by now both masks look just as crude.
Keep in mind, I’m sure if the Stunt mask had ended up being the Hero, the Hero we know today would be looked down as sloppy eyecuts.lol
The stunt mask seems to have a more nice and “even shaped” eye cuts opposed to the Hero in which the masks proper left eye is larger than the right.
On a side note, member Colbster just informed me with this. I do remember him posting this way back when he posted his converted mask by TLW.
I remember him saying that he did multiple conversions not just one…
I just remember that because he said that the last one he did was the best one meaning that he did more than one
Hopefully Colby may chime in later when he has more info.
Someone told me it was a guy named James Carter
I was under the impression that TLW converted all of the stunt/hero masks for the movie?
Great thread again K, love talking H1.
Considering we know of at least three masks (due to that post-production party picture), maybe it was just a case of practice makes perfect, and indeed the hero was just the best one. I’m sure a lot of people remember how their first eye-cuts came out.
There is an old interview with Malone mentioning some things here.
This may be news to some of you, but if there was no Malone, Michael Myers may well have been a very different babysitter stalking madman. We asked him to elaborate a bit on this. “I get asked about this a lot, and I wish I had some great story of its creation. The truth is it was a very minor event during my time at Don Post Studios [Ed. Note: a company most famous for creating rubber masks for commercial sale and use in movies]. Fearing that we were going to lose our license from Universal, which included a great deal of our output, we were looking for new characters to license. We actually wanted to put out the monsters from ‘Star Trek’, which included the Salt Vampire, the Gorin, and several others. To do that, we were contractually obligated to do Kirk and Spock. We got hold of life casts of the actors from makeup wizard Mike Westmore, I think, and I used those castings as a basis to sculpt Kirk and Spock. We couldn’t use the actual life masks as they would have been too small when reproduced as masks. Sometime later John Carpenter and several others came in and asked if we could paint one of the Kirk masks white and spray the hair black. The mask was pulled from the production line and taken back to the paint department. I don’t recall who actually painted it… it may have been [head painter] Rob Tharpe. Because it was not a standard paint job, it was painted with a special paint that was a good deal more durable than the usual paints. I know there are bunches of die-hard fans saying, ‘He doesn’t know what he’s talking about’ because the hair is not black in the film. The hair was painted with black lacquer and would have fallen off quickly. I noticed it when I went to see the film first run.”
“In any case, I think it’s interesting that everyone thinks it’s so scary. It shows the power of suggestion and the power of a great director at the top of his game. The mask is really not scary at all. If anything, it’s just nondescript. It’s the context it’s placed in that makes it scary.”
Given this info, perhaps Wallace did the final eyecuts on this mask?
Interesting topic but we’ll never ever know. I’ve always wondered why there had never ever been a mention of an added trip to DPS by anyone to get more or even the one Kirk mask. That portion of the story never was mentioned by Wallace, Carpenter, Hill, etc. They mentioned going there for H2 but never H1. I agree with an above suggestion that the likelihood of a hushed conspiracy between them all to hide that that occurred is extremely unlikely. Years ago when that first came to light I had brought up the exact topic on the forums that in my opinion the stunt mask looked amateurish compared to the hero mask and if true I felt the hero was made by the studio.
Has anyone ever verified that during the short, short production of the film they found time to take a few hours or even a half day to the studio to get an additional mask? Maybe I’m alone on doubting that but just odd to me the film makers never mentioned it and, to my knowledge, haven’t verified it.
Later today I’ll post a comparison picture that, in my opinion, questions the timeline of Malone’s story.
Okay, I was able to get this old picture off of a CD. Years ago when this topic was brought up I had and still have a hard time buying the story and without it coming off disrespectful to anyone involved, I was leaning towards 50’s thought process of ‘people want to be a part of this’ theory. I had shown this image here:
And what you’re seeing is one of those H2 Stunt masks supposedly made but not used for H2 owned by Malone and then Malone’s supposed sister mask to the originals he claimed to have made for the first film. BOTH masks are missing. I first noticed that each mask was on the same Styrofoam head with the same missing piece and I thought that was interesting but not proof they are the same mask. I then pointed out some comparisons between the two saying that despite the very different angles and elevation of the images I saw enough similarities in the eye cuts and masks to say that it’s possible they are the same mask and that the one that Malone said was made back in 78 with the others for the film was repainted/rehaired at some point to resemble the original mask. At the time my post was deleted and I was told not to question people like Malone or I might scare them off. The topic died shortly after. Again, not accusing him of falsifying a story but he admitted himself that this was a minimal part of his time there, ie: not important, so the chance that even back in 82, 83, 84, etc., he repainted the H2 stunt mask and after 20 years remembered it being made at the time of the original’s mask, but wasn’t, is possible.
Thanks for the input Darkness and Josh!
Yes that’s one of the two interviews I had read long ago. The other interview by Malone goes into deeper depth explaining how the mask made by the crew(not DP) was in a horrid state.
From seeing Josh’s comparison pic of the two masks by DP, I do think they are the same mask or were at least made by the same person. Not only do the eye cuts match but the styrafoam head Josh mentions is the same. Now if you add Paul’s conspiracy theory, it kinda adds up.
Carpenter and Co never mention about asking for back-ups from DP during H1. Supposedly the whole sister mask issue by DP was actually about H2, not H1 would make sense. The story could have been changed due to the fact they(DP studios) had to go to court over the MASK issue.
I wanna tend to side with 50 and K’s theory as well. I have spoken with tlw and he seemed to be able to recall fairly well and easily how he made the mask. I’m sure that the whole crew is not going to make a story up for 30 yrs saying TLW made the mask for absolutely no gain. They have zero reason to state that other then maybe ego.
I assume when Malone states that the mask for the film was in a horrid state, that it looked “gross”, he’s referring to the Hero during H2.
No way could he tell how the mask was painted in H1, you can hardly see anything in that film.
Great thread Kaizu.
I would think that TLW was responsible for all of the original masks for the first movie. The theory of don post doing the hero seems kind of far fetched. The forehead creases would lead me to believe the mask was bought at a store that had It folded in its bag and those would probably not be there if it was pulled off of the assembly line. The hero mask really isn’t much better than the stunt masks It just looks like that to all of us and many mask makers have glamorized it over the years. The eye cuts are uneven and sized different, the hair line is jagged and the paint is sloppy and the amount of paint missing on the neck (even though some of that has to with the angle of the spray) just doesn’t look like don post studios did it…
In a way, considering the budget the movie was on, I always figured the masks were chopped up by TLW with a pair of scissors, the extra hair ripped off, and spray painted with some Sears brand paint. I doubt the mask was ever envisioned to become as iconic as it has. It’s ironic, really. Such imperfection is strived to be matched perfectly by tons of fans.
After adding up Josh and Paul’s theory together…this may be the case.
In no way am I or anyone here calling Malone a liar; he’s my favorite mask maker. Not sure when the interviews done with Malone took place but there’s a chance he didn’t want to get into detail since DP was going to court over their mask. Also when he states the crew came to DP studios to get some masks, there’s a slight chance he may have gotten that mixed up with the first time TLW went to buy the 75 and the Emitt Kelly mask for H1.
Was it ever discussed where TLW actually purchased the mask(or masks)? Was it really JC that came to DP studios during H2?
All I can add is that DW told me there was the Hero, stunt, two Tramers and “SOME DP MASKS on set”.
^^^ TLW did name the store on Hollywood blvd and purchased a spock and the Emmit mask and kirk. One reasonable idea is that out of the ones converted, the hero was chosen due to it looking the best out of the others as maybe the eyes were a bit too big for John, didn’t look as good on Nick. Maybe just fit him better or looked the best on screen.
There are spray paint cans that can be seen in a few behind the scene photos that have been posted here over the years ( i have minimal clue as to what else they used spray paint for, for the movie to be honest besides the leaves maybe).
I love reading quotes that Billy might post here and there as it’s great reading and good info, but seeing Tommy and John on screen telling the story of how the mask came to be is (to me) much more entertaining and a purer source of what and how it happened…
What a great Thread.
1: I doubt the mask was actually spray painted. On the films masks, the paint appears to fade/smudge. Aerosol paint would crack and flake/chip off (looking more like broken glass)
2: The Mask that Malone did up is very interesting. But confuses the situation for me. If they never approached DPS for the first movie, why was it made in the first place?
3: If made for the second film, why did it have two totally different finishing jobs?
