Halloween 6 - The Confusing Ending

For years I’ve been trying to piece together a lot of things from the third act at Smith’s Grove and came across some plausible answers, but I never did become 100% satisfied with them. I want to know what other fans had to say about the things I’m talking about because I think it’s pretty interesting to hear the many interpretations of this that could be out there just waiting to be shared. I made this same comment over on the H6 forum on IMDb:

  1. Did Michael rape Jamie (like in the P-Cut) or was she artificially inseminated? The intro seems to imply rape while the fetuses at the end seem to imply the latter. But if an experiment then why the heck was the Thorn symbol marked on Steven’s chest at the beginning of the movie?

  2. It seems Wynn was interested in the baby becoming evil, so why was he taunting Danny?

  3. The group of scientist at the end was working on a genetic experiment involving Michael’s DNA (in the Unrated Director’s Cut, we learn that it’s for a cure). What did this have to do with Wynn trying to control evil?

Now speaking of the Unrated Director’s Cut, it is an extended version of the theatrical cut including alternate and extended scenes. These include:

  1. An alternate scene during Tommy’s opening monologue where we see Steven in an incubator of the lab room being looked after by a doctor. The thorn symbol is already painted on his chest.
  2. A quick sequence where Danny hears the Man in Black’s voice after John slaps Kara, however he doesn’t see Michael standing outside like in the P-Cut.
  3. More gore is displayed when Jamie gets killed by the machinery.
  4. Wynn’s extended dialogue in the office scene between him and Loomis (I’ll get more on this later)
  5. Alternate dialogue between the doctors in the hallway before they step into the operating room. A piece of dialogue even reveals the experiment they were about to work on which involved making a cure for a genetic disease.
  6. A longer sequence of Michael standing about before he steps into the operating room to kill the doctors.
  7. An extended sequence regarding the doctor’s death at the gate. We see his head slice right through the gate fall to pieces on the other side.
  8. At the end where we see Michael’s mask lying on the floor, instead of hearing Loomis scream we instead hear him say “It’s over Michael, it’s finally over”.

Now, I wanted to say something on behalf of Wynn’s extended dialogue from the D-Cut, but since I can be sure not many people here are familiar with it I decided to share all the other difference in it from the T-Cut and also felt the need to share details about the R-Cut either. But on behalf of Wynn’s dialogue, in the T-Cut it was short and brief and pretty hard to understand:

Wynn: Ah, I was getting Sam I was afraid you wouldn’t make it.
Loomis: Why, now?
Wynn: Because you were the first one to see it. You recognized it’s power.
Loomis: Michael?
Wynn: Evil. Pure, uncorrupted, ancient.
Loomis: You…are…a madman.
Wynn: I’ve had my failures but this baby, Jamie’s baby! We are at the dawn of a new age Sam, and I’m asking you to join me.
Loomis: I thought…Michael was a monster, but you (gets knocked out).

Now the dialogue in the office scene in the D-Cut plays like this with the added words in bold:

Wynn: Ah, I was getting Sam I was afraid you wouldn’t make it.
Loomis: Why, now?
Wynn: Because you were the first one to see it. You recognized it’s power.
Loomis: Michael?
Wynn: Evil. Pure, uncorrupted, ancient. You devoted your whole life in destroying it, while I embraced it, studied it.
Loomis: You…are…a madman.
Wynn: You cannot deny you’ve always wanted to know what was behind the power, to hold it…to control it. The druids understood this. I have been able to harness that power. Oh yes I’ve had my failures, but this baby, Jamie’s baby! We are at the dawn of a new age Sam, and I’m asking you to join me.
Loomis: I thought…Michael was a monster, but you (gets knocked out).

What do you guys have to say about this? Does it help explain things a bit better? It surprised me when I first came across it and was relieved there was more to that scene than what was displayed because I always felt like the conversation was too short and there just had to have been more to it. It was rather upset how these added words ended up cut in final editing. The flow of the scene is much better. The scene in the hallways where the doctors talk about genetic engineering goes like this in the T-Cut:

Woman: The process is…(this fades out due to the sound of the steam which is rather a shame).
Man: Yes, but how do we know it’s reliable?
Woman #2: We’ve tested it and had no problems.
Man: Why do you perceive this to be such a breakthrough?
Man #2: We never seen genetic engineering on the scale before.
Woman #2: Exactly and the recombinant DNA repercussions alone make this procedure a breakthrough.
Man #2: Especially the splicing instruments.
Woman #2: It’s based on Dr. Wynn’s research.

Now the D-Cut dialogue plays like this:

Man #2: Well we uh, never seen genetic engineering on the scale before especially the splicing instruments.
Woman #2: With this procedure we corrupt potential in progeny disorders.
Man #2: But we uh, never seen genetic engineering on the scale before.
Woman #2: Exactly and the recombinant DNA repercussions alone make this procedure a breakthrough.
Man #2: Especially the splicing instruments.
Woman: it’s the essence of hormone.

That flat out explains the whole operation they’re about to work on. Why cut that out? Seriously Joe Chappelle, if you’re going to change an entire part of the movie then why cut out dialogue that helps explain it better? But in regards with this and the three questions I asked regarding the confusing plot points of the movie, what do you guys have to say about all of this?

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This whole movie is a mystery to me. I also have questions as well…why didn’t anyone else see the blood all over the floor where tommy found the baby? Why didn’t anyone hear it crying In the bathroom. H6 is a big blur to me because a whole lot goes down in it that still bothers me. Wouldn’t the strides know about the house other than the dad? You think that all of them being related they’d have some idea until later in the movie. I don’t really like watching this movie. It bores me for some reason. Maybe because there’s less Michael than what I want and more about a group that makes no dang sense.

Well the cult itself didn’t really have much of a role anyway. Michael had more of a role then them basically since we saw him throughout the whole movie. I thought he had a fair amount of screen time. We do have to save most of the scenes for other characters to know who they are and see their situations.

H6 is pretty confusing. There’s a lot of threads running through the film. The change of directors and different versions complicates it even more…I guess I don’t think about it too much. I enjoy it for the bleak atmosphere, music and brutality. I know I’m in the minority here but I enjoy the theatrical version much more. Nostalgia plays a part…but I also like one key scene where Michael slaughters the cult.

It’s like…whereas the Producer’s Cut shows Michael is totally controlled by this group, the Theatrical Cut shows that his evil cannot be restrained. Though they tried to control him and manipulate him, his rage was far more powerful than them. At least that’s what I took from it. I think that’s more true to the character.

Thanks for the response Nosferatu. Also, how funny our usernames just go together. :smiley:

Huh, I didn’t notice that until you pointed it out. Orlok’s one of my favorite movie villains…I’m a huge fan of that film.

Nosferatu is one of my favorite horror films. I have the 2007 DVD Edition with the excellent restored cinematography that makes the movie look much clearer and includes the original soundtrack. I was blown away when I seen the trailer of it I just had to get my hands on this version. :slight_smile:

So, any other Halloween fans out there willing to take a stab at the ending here with how they pieced things together regarding the baby, Danny, Kara, and this apparent experiment for a genetic cure?

Okay, I’m bumping this thread just to see if I can bring in more users to share their ideas on this. I’ll be happy to read them.

Hey, I decided to upload the Director’s Cut footage of this movie for people to see, just to get the whereabouts of it around since it’s a much lesser known cut of the movie than the Producer’s Cut. Most importantly, watch Wynn’s extended dialogue sequence and the alternate lines of the staff doctors in the hallways scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPKq0fzMPZA

creepiest film creepiest mask since h1
closet to the h1 feel

made no sense could have been a big winner

Happy New Years Day guys and I wish you all a happy New Year. I recently made a comment on the F13 Community boards today answering the three questions about this movie I tried to piece together that I started the thread out with. I wanted to share my answers that finally give me closure to this movie which is copy-and-pasted entirely from F13 Community to save me having to rewrite things here. The three questions were ones that really stumped me for sometime, especially when it came to Steven’s conception and the Danny subplot. But I have to tell you, after running through some threads on OHMB once again on H6, I came across an old comment of mine regarding Danny’s role that pretty much lit a light-bulb in my head on what I had to say on behalf of it. Now I want to start off with a serious break down of these situations on behalf of questions that rise in them to get a clear understanding of what is the case here. Then I’ll leave off the big left-over questions for when I do write out my big detail explanation summary afterwards I feel will finally tie all the holes of this movie that doesn’t require much over thinking beyond the movie’s scope here. So bare with me because you’re in it for a long reading.

SITUATION 1: STEVEN’S CONCEPTION

To go in order here, let’s start with the Steven issue. Well in the P-Cut, which had a different outcome for the ending, we learn that Michael is the father through a flashback of Jamie’s and Kara’s line at the end to indicate this. In the T-Cut however, these two things have been omitted, but Jamie’s line from the cut flashback sequence “Uncle Michael, please don’t hurt me!” before Michael is forced upon her still come into play at the start of the movie along with shots of Jamie’s flashback that appear in a quick flash-cut sequence at the start of the movie. That gives people the impression that Michael raped her considering we then transition to her being pregnant and ready to give birth. Plus it seems rather off that Chappelle would choose these specific shots from Jamie’s flashback (including a shot of her tied to the altar) to include here. Plus, we have Mary trying to save the baby from being killed apparently like in the P-Cut, and the baby still being marked in blood of the Thorn symbol in the ceremonial chamber room by I’m guessing Dr. Wynn. These are reasons to assume Michael had indeed still raped Jamie as established in the P-Cut.

Now what contradicts the thought of Michael being the father of the movie is during the last act of the movie where we transition to the Smith’s Grove setting. We learn that apparently, Dr. Wynn and some staff members have been doing some genetic testing and we see a tank of stillborn fetuses held in a lab room. Around them we see microscopes which now gives us an impression that perhaps the baby was a product of an experiment. Plus during the office scene between Wynn and Loomis, Wynn speaks of failures and Steven was a success from that. While he doesn’t flat out state he’s been cloning Michael, it only makes sense if such experiments were involved here for Wynn to have many failures in. Plus if Wynn is truly trying to replicate evil, he would have to clone Michael. A clone would be a replicate. With Michael raping women to conceive a child the natural way, while some of the evil genes can be passed on, not all of them would and Wynn would likely want the child to have 100% evil genes. Perhaps Jamie’s line in the opening was suppose to be looked at differently. Even in the P-Cut, Jamie seems to say it on behalf of thinking Michael was set to kill her. I doubt she knew he was going to rape her. So it seems Steven was meant to be the result of a cloning experiment.

But if that’s the case then why was he still marked in blood of the Thorn symbol in the ceremonial chamber room? Why was Jamie forced to give birth in the dungeons of Smith’s Grove? Why was Nurse Mary trying to save it as though it was going to be killed when it wasn’t? This will be explained soon.

SITUATION 2: THE NEED FOR DANNY

Now this was perhaps the biggest confusing plot point of the movie since it starts out with this build-up and then by the last act it seems to go nowhere. Danny is this six year old kid who is hearing voices telling him to kill, and is basically the next child to be influenced under the Thorn curse. Considering what the motives are with Wynn and the staff, it rather conflicts with their need for Danny. Wynn has been interested in replicating Michael Myers through apparent cloning experiments to produce a baby. In the P-Cut, Tommy reveals to Kara that after Michael killed all of his family, the curse would pass onto another child. This dialogue has been cut however, but Tommy still makes a comment on behalf of the baby being the final sacrifice and later on with Mrs. Blankenship’s statement, the impression that Danny is set to take over killing after Michael killed the baby. In the P-Cut when Wynn kidnaps Danny and Kara along with the baby and Michael, Michael is set to kill the baby and Danny is set to kill his mother. However in the T-Cut, Wynn had no intentions of killing the baby since the baby was the embodiment of evil from birth. When he kidnaps Danny and Kara, Kara is thrown into a room while Danny is seated next to an operating room. We never know of their use for Wynn and it’s just left up in the air.

Now people have assumed that Wynn kidnapped Danny because of a negative energy in the house that’s taking over him, and Wynn is interested of toying with his DNA like he did with Michael’s. This impression leaves us with the idea that the “Cult of Thorn” had nothing to do with Michael becoming evil and he simply became evil, and this same negative energy was working it’s way into Danny. It also gives us the impression that Michael isn’t even under the Thorn curse. Funny, because even Dan Farrands speak of some negative energy around the house that’s having an impact on Danny in a voice-over interview he done a few years ago. Then of course there’s Wynn’s line to Loomis at the end where tells him in reference to Michael’s evil: “You were the first one to see it, and you’ve recognized it’s power!” and which gave people the impression that the cult had nothing to do with Michael being evil. Finally there is Wynn’s line to the guy in the cult robe later on where he says: “You can take that off now, Halloween is over!” which got people thinking perhaps they weren’t a real cult.

Well, there are just somethings wrong here with those things. First off, the movie doesn’t indicate anything about a dark energy inhabiting the house. Wynn would have no reason to toy with his DNA when he already had Michael, an evil being in his possession and has already been toying with his DNA. Second, we clearly see Danny being tormented and slowly turning into Michael because of Dr. Wynn just like in the P-Cut. We see him as the MIB communicating with Danny here from the beginning and stalking him. The impression is that he and the cult were going to turn him evil just like they did with Michael. I mean, they wouldn’t be taunting him and bring him under the influence of Thorn if they had nothing to do with Michael being evil as well. He even has the symbol on his wrist. Mrs. Blankenship’s back story about Michael even informs us that he was once a normal boy but like Danny, he heard voices that told him to kill and he successfully committed an act of murder. Afterwards he was committed to Smith’s Grove and became a superhuman person cursed under a magic spell. We’re left under the impression that Danny was to become like Michael since he was a normal six year old kid undergoing the same thing Michael went through. So it’s clear that Michael became evil because of the Cult of Thorn as they wouldn’t later be taunting Danny. So Wynn’s line to Loomis wasn’t a statement indicating the cult had nothing to do with his evil, but rather Loomis was the first one to see it take effect.

The T-Cut doesn’t show us that the cult thing was entirely fake since have people like the cult members we see at the beginning of the movie in the ceremonial chambers and Mrs. Blankenship, who is associated with Dr. Wynn and his crew since she knows the back story on Michael, the situation with Danny, helps steal the baby towards the end, and with her living across the street from the Myers house likely tipped the cult on using Michael and Danny as their victims to carry out their deeds. We have to take into account here that are still real members shown in the T-Cut that weren’t part of Wynn’s genetic/science fiasco, so Wynn’s line to the guy in the cult robe at the end was simply to keep the cult’s cover. He turns to the others in a way that clearly shows he wanted them to think the staff member was just wearing his robe in honor of Halloween. He’s not revealing the whole cult thing was a sham, but simply trying to keep cover. So it’s clear that all of those doctors aren’t even associated with the cult besides the guy in the robe, Wynn, Bonham, and possibly the guy standing across from the other doctors that makes the statements: “Well how do you know it’s reliable?”, “Why do you perceive this to be such a breakthrough?”, and “Terence, I want to talk to you about this procedure.” There’s more on him I say in the third part below so I’ll refer to him as Dr. Doe. But anyway, the other doctors were just normal doctors prepping for a medical procedure.

So how does Danny’s role tie in with Wynn’s motive? Why was Kara locked in a room? And since the cult is pretty much real, besides Wynn, Bonham, and the guy in the robe who are clearly associated with the cult, where do the other doctors stand outside the operating room? Are they even staff members at the Sanitarium? This will be explained soon.

SITUATION 3: THE GENETIC EXPERIMENT

Now during this part of the movie, we learn that genetic experimentation has been going around Smith’s Grove and it’s rather indicated Michael’s DNA has been worked with here. The experiment we see happening inside the operating room is revealed to be a scientific breakthrough procedure. Before Wynn arrives with Dr. Bonham, the non-cultist doctors talk about how unique the DNA strand they’ve been working with is to the guy in the robe and Dr. Doe. It’s clear Dr. Doe is a cult member just by the way he questions the other doctors on their discovery and he didn’t seem too surprised himself. If he’s associated with the cult member that’s involved in the making of evil then why would he be? He would know what type of person Michael is. The other doctors talk about the DNA value is shown to be high on the genetic scale, and feel that it will lead to a breakthrough. In the D-Cut there’s dialogue that reveal that they feel they can make a genetic cure. Now I’ve always been wondering how exactly this tied to an evil deed on Wynn’s behalf since Wynn is involved. One would think there just had to be something evil about this experiment considering they’re working with Michael’s DNA here. Well the thing is, there was no evil deed going on here and meant to be a breakthrough cure just as established. One thing for sure is, Danny and the baby weren’t involved in it.

So I’m guessing the question to leave off with this is what is the importance of this experiment to be displayed? Why is Wynn and three other cult members involved in it? Well prepare yourselves for what is about to come next because the questions from all three parts will now be answered in another epic summary of mine that will reference the previous movies into this as well.

So now in a nice summary and answering all of the questions I left behind above neatly displayed in a quote box, the story of Halloween 6 works like this:

Michael Myers was brought under the influence of the Thorn cult that resides it’s headquarters at Smith’s Grove. They cursed him and made him want to target his family. Before being inflicted with the curse he was successfully taunted into killing a family member, his sister Judith in 1963. The cult leader at this time I’ll say was some one else. Wynn was part of it, but was a bit skeptical of the cult actually cursing Michael.

The cult members inflict the curse on Michael and wait to see if anything would take effect. Loomis is sent to be his psychiatrist and had time to discover a negative influence in Michael and bragged about this to his colleagues, some of which were cult members, who were pleased that their ritual had worked.

By 1978, Michael tried to go after his other sister Laurie but failed to kill her and gets caught in an explosion. Ten years later he is to be sent back to Smith’s Grove after spending that time in a coma. He escapes his transfer and goes after his niece Jamie. He fails to kill her as well as in the following year and both of them are captured by the MIB who turns out to be the new cult leader and head of Smith’s Grove, Dr. Wynn.

By 1995, the cult wanted to recruit another child to inherit the curse since they felt it was time Michael finished off his duties. However, his final sacrifice had to be a child of innocent blood so it had to be a baby. Jamie is impregnated and months later, the cult found their new child, Danny, to recruit with the help of Mrs. Blankenship who was living across the street from him. He is then taunted by Dr. Wynn. Since Jamie’s baby is seen by all the cult members as Michael’s final sacrifice, Jamie is carried down to the dungeons where the cult’s headquarters are where she gives birth. While there are cult members around, Wynn had to take the baby into the ceremonial room and mark it with the Thorn symbol in blood in symbolic fashion to signify it’s role being Michael’s final sacrifice.

In the end it turns out the cult leader Dr. Wynn has been trying to clone Michael to produce an evil being from birth as well as exploiting Michael’s evil for medical purposes. He never intended to recruit a child to inherit the curse. He wanted to have control over Michael for a long time to come along with the clones he made off of him. He taunted Danny to please the cult members that weren’t aware of his own agenda, while he received help in his achievements from just a handful of members considering he was performing an evil deed after all. Jamie’s baby wouldn’t be Michael’s final sacrifice since the baby is actually one of Wynn’s experiments that successfully lived to birth. Most of the cult members who didn’t know of Wynn’s cloning tactics wouldn’t know that, which is why Nurse Mary tried to have Jamie escape with it, thinking it was going to be killed.

Later on, besides Wynn trying to replicate evil through genetic experiments using Michael’s DNA, he was also willing to go about his way exploiting Michael’s evil for medical purposes after a group of non-cultists approached him on behalf of working with Michael’s DNA they somehow came across (but not knowing where it was from), and felt a breakthrough could be made from it. Besides Wynn working with Michael’s DNA here, he also wanted help from three cult members who have probably been the ones helping him in the cloning experiments. Since they had already worked with Michael’s DNA in the experiments, why wouldn’t they share a hand in working with it this time for a medical breakthrough procedure? Then Michael comes to butcher them all, probably upset with the fact that his evil is being exploited.

Of course at the time of the experiment, Danny, Steven, Michael, and Kara would be put to no use at this time and even though Wynn taunted Danny to please the cult members who weren’t aware of his cloning agenda and brought him and his mother to Smith’s Grove to be his first sacrifice, he couldn’t keep his secret any longer considering Michael wasn’t going to kill the baby and be relinquished from the curse in order for him to keep around and still have control over. Obviously Wynn had to tell the other cult members the truth, but how were they going to get around inflicting Danny with the curse if Michael wasn’t going to be relinquished from his? Well, notice that Tommy’s line to Kara in the P-Cut on behalf of Michael’s power needing to end in order for it to be passed onto another child not being featured in the T-Cut.

So now we can assume that the cult could still inflict a child with the curse while some one else was still under it. So while Wynn would have to tell the other cult members about his actions and accomplishing what he wanted on behalf of having evil Michael around and a clone of him, the cult will still have what they wanted on behalf of Danny inheriting the curse to carry out a new trend of sacrifices in their favor. So Kara is locked in a room in the meantime until she is killed by Danny after he’s inflicted with the curse.

So there you have it, Halloween 6 explained and all the holes tied up. What do you guys think? I finally have the closure on this movie I have been waiting for all along. But for the most part, I’m happy that I was also to make ends meet on the Danny subplot thanks to me coming across an old comment of my on OHMB I wish I haven’t forgotten.

I see that I’m ten years late in replying to this thread, but I’m interested in this topic and just discovered this thread. You’ve clearly put more thought into this than whoever it was that wrote the climax for the theatrical cut, which from what I understand was rushed and sloppily put together.

Personally, I prefer the theatrical cut because Michael’s evil seems more vague, whereas in the producer’s cut it’s made very clear that the cult picked an innocent child and turned him into a murderer, which makes Michael no longer the boogeyman.

My interpretation of the theatrical cut, or how I like to view it, is that the cult isn’t responsible for Myers becoming a murderer. They just think he has the curse of Thorn because he likes to target his family members. To me the curse is more like a theory than a definitive reason for why Michael is evil. So the cult sort of worships Michael and Wynn wants to take it a step further and see if he can control that evil power.

I view Dr. Wynn as being similar to Cochran in Halloween III. They’re both into the occult and science to achieve their goals. Cochran is into witchcraft and robots, and Wynn is into Celtic/Norse cult sh*t and genetic experiments. If Michael is inflicted with the curse, I prefer it to be unexplained why he has it. I like to think that Loomis was the first person to realize that Myers was pure evil, and Wynn started to believe it too.

I just think the ending is very confusing. If some of those doctors weren’t part of the cult and were just interested in the DNA experiment which might lead to some kind of cure, what do they think of Danny and the baby in the other room? It just seems weird that innocent doctors would be part of this experiment when there’s all this other evidence of evil genetic experiments and weird cult stuff going on and Michael wandering around the hospital.

I’m also interested in exactly what the procedure was that they were doing. I always assumed that Danny and the baby would be involved in it somehow but I never knew why. It never occurred to me that Wynn abducted them just to placate the cult.

I think what really happened was that the studio just wanted to make changes and take out as much of the cult stuff as possible, so they basically ignored almost everything that was set up previously and tried to introduce a new explanation without really explaining anything. Not that I mind that much, though; I hate the idea of Myers being created and controlled by a cult, so I vastly prefer the theatrical cut ending, as messy as it is.

I want to know why they closed the door on that poor guy to let Michael kill him. They should have waited for him. That was awful

He wasn’t some innocent bystander. He was a part of Wynn’s posse of evil scientists. He deserved to die.

To answer the thread in general, I prefer the T-Cut because it is WAY scarier and Michael is straight up EVIL. In the P-Cut, they almost try to make him sympathetic. I don’t like that. I like the straight 100% evil badass of the T-Cut. And I also prefer that he DIDN’T have sex. In the T-Cut, the baby came from genetic experimentation. That’s far better. Also the T-Cut ending is way more exciting. The P-Cut ending is super anti-climactic.

Caveat, I did like the version of the script where it was revealed Wynn himself raped Jamie. That to me actually makes sense and is quite horrifying. I wish they had stayed with that instead of having Michael do it in the P-Cut.