＊＊＊Halloween Kills & Halloween Ends Discussion＊＊＊

[DevonteHuntley]

But 4- 6 still continued with “Michael kills his family,” something perpetuated since 1981. “Michael kills his family” has been the motive behind his killing for just about every sequel until 2018.

But in regards to the Michael Vs. Laurie aspect alone, not the overall family in general, we’ve had nearly half the series not involve her and while a lot of those movies didn’t do well, it was for other reasons outside of just not having Laurie in the picture. If they truly cared for Laurie by H4, they would have easily recasted the role. It’s good then they were able to move on without her.

Movie studios don’t like to take risks. There are producer’s offices that have rooms FILLED with unread scripts because the studio thinks that taking a risk on an unproven writer/director/movie won’t be profitable. As far as Universal and Trancas is concerned, Halloween is about Michael, because Michael is profitable.

This is why FANS need to be running things. Not people who just care about what’s profitable. There’s plenty of avenues and angles you can take that can still work. It’s attitudes like this that is why Resurrection turned out the way it did. I didn’t mind the internet thing and the setting in the Myers house, but Michael’s RETURN? Yeah, that was a streeeeeeetch beyond stretched. That movie certainly should have continued with a new killer, maybe even Laurie or John.

They tried Halloween without Michael, and it’s among the most disliked Halloween movies that exist.

It wasn’t just so much Michael not being in the movie, but the continuity was also different. It didn’t follow the other two AT ALL. I think if the movie was still in continuity and featured a couple of returning characters like Laurie at least, it could have been better accepted. The problem is, you’re watching a movie called HALLOWEEN III that has NOTHING to do with the other movies, no characters, no plot points, nothing but some cameo appearances of the original movie itself on TV and a few returning actors in different roles: Nancy Kyes as Mrs. Challis, Dick Warlock as a robot, and Jamie Lee as the curfew announcer. Sorry, but that’s lame as hell. If Carpenter wanted to do an anthology route, he should have done that starting with the sequel. You don’t make a direct continuation and expand more on the lore of the original and then want to shift gears entirely. Friday the 13th killed off Jason in Part 4 and with 5, they continued on with a fresh direction but still in continuity with the others and a returning character as center focus. That is how you make a transition.

Since then, studios have been reluctant to deviate too far from Michael Myers killing his family. Even in the 2018 sequel, Judith is Michael’s sister, not just his babysitter. In the end, Hollywood is not in the business of making movies. Hollywood is in the business of making money.

Well given how movie theaters seem to be dying out with the streaming services and mainly thanks to the corona virus now and seeing how well technology is these days that even amateur people can make quality films on their phones and the independent route being more accessible and accomplishing, Hollywood’s days are gonna be numbered that they’re gonna be left just making TV shows. Worrying out making money and what’s gonna be appealing is exactly why many of these films suffer quality wise and flop. H6 and H:R could have been two of the best sequels in the series, their original versions were a lot better, and their T-Cuts were reduced to straight up trash because Dimension wanted more gore, more Busta (like WTF???), a shorter run time, jump scares, etc. and all they did was hurt the movies. It’s pitiful.

I side with John Carpenter. As much as I like Halloween II, he said the sibling angle was a mistake and has hindered the series ever since. this is all common knowledge, but he said it was the age of Empire Strikes Back, and he was influenced by the reveal of Vader being Luke’s father (and Budweiser).

He’s hindered at something HE started? That’s redundant. But he should have suck it up. He choose not to stick around past H3 and let Akkad and company do as they please so he has no room to talk. What’s done is done and the sibling angle is not bad of a motive. So Michael wanted to kill his sisters. Even in H2 it’s not like we knew WHY. All John did was provide a common link between Michael and Laurie and nothing else. There was still a lot we didn’t know about Michael and why he was this “boogeyman”. Jamie Lloyd only happened because Laurie wasn’t included as JLC didn’t want to be involved. So had JLC stuck on, H4 would have been different, but expanding the family thing isn’t a problem. How many other killer characters do we have out there killing random people? LOTS. Let Michael be different. Be happy he still kills at random on the side while pursuing his main targets. There’s like a balance here, so be balanced and accepting of it.

Halloween was supposed to be a one and done. By itself, Halloween is extremely frightening, and is a complete story. It did create some sort of mythology, but even the best minds couldn’t come up with a MM origin or backstory that pleased all the fans. JC was correct in saying the more you try to explain it, the less scary and interesting it becomes.

Says who? People just can’t adapt to story expansion because they’re losers. I’ve seen many horror movies where a villain’s backstory is explained up front and they’re still scary. It’s not always about making things a mystery it’s sometimes about the tone and atmosphere as well. And not all the time, you don’t need to be a mystery to be scary and over time and many sequels in, it’s time to flesh out backstory. It is what it is. That mystery crap works out at first, but not in the long run so the writers did what they had to do. Coming up with a MM origin and backstory is easy and accomplishable, but if the execution of it is poor, then you have a problem. But the idea can still be good and I found Thorn to be a gem. But if you’re gonna be hell bent over the idea of a backstory, then you’re not gonna be accepting to any idea even if it was out of this world good because at the end of the day it kills your little mystery angle. Well LIGHTEN UP.

I love Halloween I, II, & III. I watched 4 again recently, and while it is fun, it doesn’t hold a candle to the earlier entries, IN MY OPINION. Every now and then I’ll try H20, but other than that, I can’t watch anything aside from the first 3 and H18. Parts 5, 6, H8, RZ, RZH2 are so silly, IN MY OPINION. Poor writing and execution. 4-6 feel like fan films with a great budget. RZ’s films feel like even bigger fan films with an even bigger budget.

Don’t worry, those films don’t like you neither. You’re a despicable person given too much life to hate and it’s disgusting.

H18 is the closest, and sits nicely with the original 3, IMO. I enjoy that one over and over and can’t wait for HK & HE.

And you’re disappointing. It’s an unoriginal rehash late-as-hell attempt to be a true sequel, but it’s not. It’s gonna take more than a sour retcon, JLC, John Carpenter’s music (rather crappy this time), and the title being the same (which is actually lame) to have this be a “close” sequel you can call worthy of following the original. This took the original and turned it 180 degrees south. What was an original, goreless, character driven, and simple story of a regular daily life with some mystery turned into an unoriginal, gory, too-many characters, bloated story with too many twists and turns in a short runtime not even to flesh and develop it all out. This movie does not deserve ANYONE’S respect. You’re letting the nostalgia of it get to you and it’s sad. I will not let it get to me. Sorry. I find H20 to be more credible than this as much as I hate that movie for it’s own retcon but at least it actually kept in tone of the original in terms of plot, simplicity, and gore and can at least keep ONE sequel in continuity.

[Davy_Krueger]

They tried Halloween without Michael, and it’s among the most disliked Halloween movies that exist.

It wasn’t just so much Michael not being in the movie, but the continuity was also different. It didn’t follow the other two AT ALL. I think if the movie was still in continuity and featured a couple of returning characters like Laurie at least, it could have been better accepted. The problem is, you’re watching a movie called HALLOWEEN III that has NOTHING to do with the other movies, no characters, no plot points, nothing but some cameo appearances of the original movie itself on TV and a few returning actors in different roles: Nancy Kyes as Mrs. Challis, Dick Warlock as a robot, and Jamie Lee as the curfew announcer. Sorry, but that’s lame as hell. If Carpenter wanted to do an anthology route, he should have done that starting with the sequel. You don’t make a direct continuation and expand more on the lore of the original and then want to shift gears entirely. Friday the 13th killed off Jason in Part 4 and with 5, they continued on with a fresh direction but still in continuity with the others and a returning character as center focus. That is how you make a transition.

Carpenter really didn’t have a choice. Universal was offering a buttload of money for the rights to make Halloween II, money which Carpenter wanted to use on other projects like The Fog. Yes, he could have said no and stuck to his principles, but that’s not how business works. He gave a little then to further his career and future in the film industry. It was either take the money and further his career, or say no and hope another opportunity like the one Trancas gave him came along, which he had no idea when that might be.

Since then, studios have been reluctant to deviate too far from Michael Myers killing his family. Even in the 2018 sequel, Judith is Michael’s sister, not just his babysitter. In the end, Hollywood is not in the business of making movies. Hollywood is in the business of making money.

Well given how movie theaters seem to be dying out with the streaming services and mainly thanks to the corona virus now and seeing how well technology is these days that even amateur people can make quality films on their phones and the independent route being more accessible and accomplishing, Hollywood’s days are gonna be numbered that they’re gonna be left just making TV shows. Worrying out making money and what’s gonna be appealing is exactly why many of these films suffer quality wise and flop. H6 and H:R could have been two of the best sequels in the series, their original versions were a lot better, and their T-Cuts were reduced to straight up trash because Dimension wanted more gore, more Busta (like WTF???), a shorter run time, jump scares, etc. and all they did was hurt the movies. It’s pitiful.

I absolutely love the P-cut of H6. I watched it back to back against the theatrical cut last week and the difference in tone, atmosphere, and story is just night and day! I wasn’t aware there was a similar cut for Resurrection. Is it available somewhere?

[PJ75]

DevonteHuntley. I’m a despicable person, Mr. or Ms. Keyboard Warrior? You really want to attempt throwing personal insults and get banned AGAIN? Have you failed to read the rules of the forum? My own counsel I will keep about which films are good or not. You’re attempt at baiting anyone here is pathetic. When someone tries to insult me, I always consider the source, and considering the source, I’m not offended, especially after skimming through your continual diatribe and opinions.

[H8SUX]

Stop replying to him. Thats what I’m going to do at least.

[PJ75]

Stop replying to him. Thats what I’m going to do at least.

You’re right. My previous post wasn’t in response to him, but he keeps replying to everyone. So, H8SUX, how excited are you about HK, which is what this thread is supposed to be about?

[DevonteHuntley]

Carpenter really didn’t have a choice. Universal was offering a buttload of money for the rights to make Halloween II, money which Carpenter wanted to use on other projects like The Fog. Yes, he could have said no and stuck to his principles, but that’s not how business works. He gave a little then to further his career and future in the film industry. It was either take the money and further his career, or say no and hope another opportunity like the one Trancas gave him came along, which he had no idea when that might be.

He still could have went the anthology route THEN instead of deciding it with the third entry. But if he couldn’t make The Fog oh well, he could have waited a few years. It makes no sense to make a decision you’ll know then years later to regret.

I absolutely love the P-cut of H6. I watched it back to back against the theatrical cut last week and the difference in tone, atmosphere, and story is just night and day!

The only thing the final cut needed was everything after Tommy bust Kara out of that room. We still could have had the P-Cut (with some of it’s own deleted scenes that’s featured in the rough cut) and after Tommy, Kara, Danny, and the baby escape from the cult ritual, they end up in the hallway where Wynn appears to do the experiment on Michael’s DNA with the doctors, showing a conflict of interest with the Thorn thing. Then we still get the massacre, the laboratory climax, but the ending with Loomis still getting marked by Wynn with a shot of Michael’s mask on the lab floor showing he escaped. The only thing I hate about the P-Cut that the T-Cut actually does better is Wynn’s need for Loomis. In the P-Cut, Wynn wants Loomis to replace him, which makes no sense since he’s practically dying. In the T-Cut, he simply wants him to join in on his science stuff since he can recognize evil and was engineering babies to carry Michael’s curse. So I would have cut out anything Wynn said about Loomis replacing him as head of Smith’s Grove.

I wasn’t aware there was a similar cut for Resurrection. Is it available somewhere?

I don’t think it’s available like the P-Cut was on bootleg for many years, but you can find clips on Youtube or through a Google search. This is perhaps the second most largest alternate cut in the original series because there’s a lot of differences. Here are some:

1. Alternate opening featuring the backyard Myers family barbecue from 1963 months before Michael killed Judith. WHY OH WHY was this cut is atrocious.
2. More talk between the two nurses at the start before talking about Laurie and her killing the paramedic.
3. There’s an alternate sequence of Michael killing the guard at the sanitarium where we see him stab him in the face.
4. Laurie is stabbed and falls on concrete whereas the T-Cut changes the surface to trees and bushes.
   4.5 - In one of the behind the scenes material, there’s a bit where Laurie mentions her son to Michael while on the roof, but this doesn’t appear in the final version nor the workprint.
5. The title of the movie is HALLOWEEN: THE HOMECOMING
6. After killing Laurie, Michael goes to a forest area where a couple is camping and having sex and he steals their firebird car, driving off listening to rap music. LOL!
7. Freddie and Nora on a talk show discussing the internet show displaying the pics of all the contestants with their full name and ages displayed. We learn Sara is 20 years old in the movie.
8. An extended scene with Sara’s pen-pal cyber buddy Myles “Deckard” Barton and his friend Scott at Myles’ house when they’re talking about the Halloween party Scott is interested in going to that night. The extended bit is him scolding Myles for wanting to be in his room all the time.
9. Scenes with Myles and Scott in public dressed in their Halloween costumes.
10. More shots of Michael following Sara while she’s on her motorcycle when she’s going to meet Freddie to drop out of the web-cast thing.
11. Sara and Jen at a motel where Sara tells Jen some backstory on her childhood, something that happened to her when she was twelve. I can’t remember what the ordeal was.
12. Michael arriving in front of the house in the Firebird and stepping out, staring at the house for a moment, almost like he hasn’t been there in so long. The firebird scenes never should have been cut because this ties later to when Nora is on the phone with Freddie and tells him that she had to have it towed away.
13. A scene with Charlie outside of the Myers house garage on Halloween morning before the contestants arrive and he’s talking to some other crew member of the live event.
14. More of Nora while she’s talking to Freddie and she dances to Janet Jackson’s “All For You” which is not the song she listens to in the T-Cut.
15. Sara, Rudy, and Jen come across an old family album in a closet showing Michael as a little boy, showing him being chained to high chairs and behaving erratically. Jen believes the parents were monsters but we all know who the true apparent monster was. WHY THIS WAS CUT I DON’T KNOW.
16. Nora’s death is shown after Freddie tells off Michael while dressed as him. She questions the tunnel underneath the Myers house. Michael comes up behind her and kills her, the entire time she thinks it’s Freddie. Poor Nora, dying never knowing the truth.
17. Freddie and Sara leave the house when it’s clear to them Michael is alive and killing everyone. Michael hops on Freddie from the porch roof to which Sara tries to intervene hitting Michael with a two-by-four wood and ends up smacking Freddie instead. This leads to Michael chasing her back into the house and to the garage.
18. The whole ending is different where in the garbage instead of Freddie saving Sara, she’s saved by Deckard who leaves the party and is shown riding on his bike to the house. Michael tries to kill Sara but idiotically tangles himself in the wire which starts off the fire. Shots of this is used in the T-Cut when Freddie is the one that causes him to fall back into the wires. Afterwards, Deckard then tells Sara who he really is and ends with Sara telling Deckard that “you can’t kill the boogeyman”. We don’t know anything on Michael’s fate.
19. Freddie is carried out on a stretcher, badly weakened and tells Sara he’s sorry about what happened to her friends. Frankly, this is a better send-off for him than trying to make him the hero of the movie which just made it all the more laughable. UGH.
20. There’s also some different dialogue throughout the movie. I’m not going to get into the specifics with that, they’re there. For example, when we first meet Rudy cooking at the college cafeteria, he mentions “Survivor”, which ties into Jen’s remark to Bill I think about “being the first one to get voted off the island”. Due to the reshoots and the movie being released months later passed it’s original September 2001 release date, Sean Patrick Thomas’ dialogue was dubbed where he mentions “The Osbournes” to signify the post-Laurie events happening in October 2002 instead of just within the next day following the opening as that show premiered in March 2002. The entire movie originally took place in 2001, hence why at the start the “three years ago” is kept in. What took place probably a couple days before Halloween is now implied to be October 31, 2001.

Then there’s the alternate endings filmed during the reshoots where Sara chops Michael’s face with an ax while he’s on a stretcher and he grabs Freddie and him still being under the garage rubble after it collapses and he grabs the neck of a female CSI worker. But over all, the workprint version featured more character development, somewhat back history on Michael and what kind of damaged child he was, and more in tone of the original Halloween and truly emphasizes more on Michael being the boogeyman. This version is better. All it needs is some of the T-Cut music scores and the morgue ending, and this could have really been a better received movie. Fuck Dimension Films.

DevonteHuntley. I’m a despicable person, Mr. or Ms. Keyboard Warrior? You really want to attempt throwing personal insults and get banned AGAIN? Have you failed to read the rules of the forum? My own counsel I will keep about which films are good or not. You’re attempt at baiting anyone here is pathetic. When someone tries to insult me, I always consider the source, and considering the source, I’m not offended, especially after skimming through your continual diatribe and opinions.

Yes, you’re whatever I call you and it’s sad you choose to be this way towards movies that deserve your respect a bit more than you’re giving and totally obsessed with ones that do not deserve all of your love. And there’s concepts and angles I suggest you can agree with me on and see the positively in and yet you want to be such a reckless nut on them. For shame on you. I’m actually offended FOR you.

Stop replying to him. Thats what I’m going to do at least.

It won’t be for long though H8SUX. Enjoy your little ignoring while you’re capable of doing it.

You’re right. My previous post wasn’t in response to him, but he keeps replying to everyone.

Wasn’t in response to me? Yet you say my name and address me directly. Please check your head please. -_-

[PJ75]

@ DevonteCuntley

I was referring to my previous post addressing my agreeance with Carpenter, dumbarse. So, if I am whatever you call me, then I guess you are whatever I call you, tittybaby.

[H8SUX]

Stop replying to him. Thats what I’m going to do at least.

You’re right. My previous post wasn’t in response to him, but he keeps replying to everyone. So, H8SUX, how excited are you about HK, which is what this thread is supposed to be about?

So excited! Lol. I just love how this is picking up right after the last one and I feel like that one had so much to do: show us where Michaels been, how he escapes, how he gets the mask, where Lauries at ect… that this one can go full steam ahead and get crazy with it. I won’t lie I know a lot about the movie already and I think it’s going to be one of the best in the series.

[PJ75]

Stop replying to him. Thats what I’m going to do at least.

You’re right. My previous post wasn’t in response to him, but he keeps replying to everyone. So, H8SUX, how excited are you about HK, which is what this thread is supposed to be about?

So excited! Lol. I just love how this is picking up right after the last one and I feel like that one had so much to do: show us where Michaels been, how he escapes, how he gets the mask, where Lauries at ect… that this one can go full steam ahead and get crazy with it. I won’t lie I know a lot about the movie already and I think it’s going to be one of the best in the series.

I’m with you. I can’t wait to see all the original returning characters, plus the new ones we got to meet in H18. Hopefully it will come out next year. Did you hear they pushed Batman back to 2022?

[PJ75]

@ H8SUX. I’m trying to stay relatively spoiler free, but it’s difficult. I’ve learned a few things, but no real plot points. I can’t wait for the media storm like last time. I couldn’t get enough.

[PJ75]

TLDR.

[DevonteHuntley]

Well you should care because you still made an oopsie and most importantly I basically told H8SUX what you couldn’t about some plot points of Halloween Kills.

[H8SUX]

@ H8SUX. I’m trying to stay relatively spoiler free, but it’s difficult. I’ve learned a few things, but no real plot points. I can’t wait for the media storm like last time. I couldn’t get enough.

You are better staying spoiler free. Still can’t wait for the trailer and just the excitement of everything. I really do think we will get a little something (maybe a poster) on the 31st. Also look forward to seeing all the returning characters especially Linsdsay and Marion who is a queen.

[DevonteHuntley]

Hey H8SUX:

And you can’t tell H8SUX that the movie starts off with Laurie being taken to the hospital, the fire-fighters arrive at the house and the reason why he escapes is because a firefighter apparently falls through the floor or something and he makes out of the hole? That we meet Tommy, Lindsey, and Marion at a bar as they watch a newsreport on the events? That the flashback to 1978 consist of Michael walking away and coming across Lonnie Elam and then he’s tracked to the Myers house where CGI Loomis appears and helps apprehend him? Then in the present, there’s all this stuff about Tommy rallying up the townspeople to track down Michael and they mistake a mental patient for him who was apart of that bus crash in the 2018 movie and never caught, until they track him down to the Myers house where a family is living? Michael kills the family, somehow Cameron and Allyson end up there. The townspeople go there and go ape S*** on Michael until he slashes and dashes through them all hence Carpenter’s comment on there being an epic bloodshed? Karen goes there to save Allyson and when she dies, this prompts Laurie to rise up from her near-death bed and pursue Michael once again which is how the movie ends? Those are at least the highlights. You’re welcome H8SUX. >

The one time I’m ever going to do you a favor so take it very passionately you hateful sponge.

[PJ75]

@ H8SUX. I’m trying to stay relatively spoiler free, but it’s difficult. I’ve learned a few things, but no real plot points. I can’t wait for the media storm like last time. I couldn’t get enough.

You are better staying spoiler free. Still can’t wait for the trailer and just the excitement of everything. I really do think we will get a little something (maybe a poster) on the 31st. Also look forward to seeing all the returning characters especially Linsdsay and Marion who is a queen.

Yeah, I accidentally almost spoiled H18 for myself way back, but luckily didn’t. I cant say the same for Force Awakens, lol.

[PJ75]

@H8SUX.

Also, the soundtrack. I loved H18 so much I have the regular vinyl and expanded vinyl releases, and the CD. Can’t wait to hear HK.

[rampageof78]

I hope that wasnt a for real breakdown of how the film opens and progresses…Thats a d*ckhead move right there man

[AllysonStrode]

Count Orlock needs to be banned after that shit he just pulled. What the hell? Where are the mods?

[PJ75]

Count Orlock needs to be banned after that S*** he just pulled. What the hell? Where are the mods?

I didn’t read it. As soon as I realized what he was about to do, I just scrolled past, but that is what I did on all his posts.

[rampageof78]

mannnnn we did so well i did stop reading but the damage has been done damn man…