I’ve been in this hobby for over a decade and I’ve heard all kinds of things about the mask, but I’m hoping to clear up a few details that may or may not be misconceptions about the mask…
What was the thickness of the pull?
I’ve heard it was paper thin, I’ve heard it was thick, I’ve heard it was medium: but what was the actual thickness of the original mask?
What was the size?
I’ve heard that it was a regular 23/24 inch mask, and it was Nick Castle’s hair and face shape alone that caused the mask to stretch around his face. But then I’ve also heard the DPS Kirk was a children’s mask, and that it was specifically its small size that caused the stretch.
What was the hair type?
I remember hearing years ago that Ken Hertlein had a lock of the original masks hair tested and it came back as yak belly hair. Any truth to this?
How well was the Hero painted?
Some say that the flesh tones on the neck were always there, others say it accumulated as the mask was used through production. Anybody know which?
The Bill Malone Mask: Where does it fit in?
Was it made for production? Was it something that randomly appeared years later? Who is Bill Malone? Was this just a hoax for money, or is there any evidence backing up the claim that this was THE original mask? And where does it fit into the timeline?
I’ve heard that the mask was fairly small. Like 22 or 23 inches and that Nick could barely fit his head in it. If you look at BTS shots of Nick in the mask it looks like his chin is actually in the neck portion of the mask and not the chin portion, this would help to explain the Castle stretch.
I believe the pull was pretty thin as well. Warlock did an interview that I saw years ago at a convention where he talked about the mask and I recall him saying it was quite thin, and the mask itself quite small.
When it comes to the finish there’s a great video on Sean Clark’s YouTube channel with Tommy Lee Wallace where Tommy converts a Kirk mask to Myers. He shows and talks about how he did it step by step, and in that video he completely paints the mask.
If you ask me, the fleshtones on the neck were always there. Having painted a Kirk with the same kind of spray paint Tommy Lee Wallace claims to have used, it’s pretty obvious that spraypaint doesn’t rub off the way it did on the hero mask. It’s not that strange to think that the neck was just left unpainted, or had a thinner layer of paint than the rest of the mask. As for the size, I believe the mask was somewhere between 23-24 inches. You can see that Castle and Warlock both have pretty big heads and the mask wouldn’t need to be super small for them to stretch it out as much as they did. Also, there apparently was velcro on the mask in H2 so the mask clinged to Warlocks face, thus stretching horizontally.
The flesh tones coming through, cause the mask was spray painted on top of an already painted mask, I basically say both paints had blended into each other, thus the yellowing effect we get in H2
Great thread Davy! I’ll try to answer these questions as accurately and objectively as I can to hopefully clear at least one or two things up.
The truth is, we don’t know how thick or thin the hero mask was. Because these were mass produced, I doubt they were going for an exact thickness on each mask and it likely varied from pull to pull. Mark Roberts who owns the hero stated that it is “about double the thickness of a KHDW”, but who’s to say what that really is given those probably varied slightly too and it isn’t exactly a precise measurement.
The whole “paper thin” thing stems from a few places from what I’ve seen. One being when Tony Moran stretches the stunt mask over his head. We can see here that it looks SUPER thin, which leads a lot of people to think the hero probably was too. That combined with the fact that these were mass produced masks from the 70’s and the general assumption there is that they wouldn’t be super heavy duty, thick, durable masks.
Somewhere between 23.75”-24”.
There is a common misunderstanding that because the Don Post studios masks weren’t technically for adults that they must be “child size”, and barely able to be fit into. Based on what we know, that’s basically not true. Josh (Sheriff Brackett) made this INVALUABLE chart with the help of four other Kirk owners a long while back. They all measured around 24-24.3” around the brow and above the ears. This included hair, but the hair on the OG kirks was relatively thin so we can safely say that they were approximately 24”. It would be a tight fit for most 6’ skinny guys- combine that with his slightly longer face and you get our favorite stretch!
This was actually Josh as well, not Ken! I see absolutely NO reason that Josh would lie about this, and I doubt he is, he I think said that he lost the paperwork a long time ago? I wouldn’t take it as definitive though, they may have used several fibers over the years that these were in production.
I have samples of hair from 2 different 1975 kirks, one of which is Josh’s, as well as a late 70s Chewie and Quasi. I’ve been wanting to get all of them tested and compared, but I am at a total loss for finding a lab that is able to actually do this in any definitive way. Hope to find one someday tho!
No one can actually answer this for a 100% fact. All we can do is look at the evidence we have and make an educated guess. In my opinion, the flesh tones were always there and did not rub off over the course of production. My reasons for this:
Flesh tones across BTS Photos: in every BTS photo we have that is not insanely overexposed, we can see flesh tones. I’ve never seen a single photo of the hero during 78 where the neck was 100% white.
Consistency in flesh tones: Not only have I never seen an all white neck photo, I’ve never seen a photo where the state or amount of flesh tones vary. In fact, they stay consistent in every photo. I’ve posted about this in other threads which I will link here shortly, but the shape and areas of flesh tone stay consistent throughout H1 and even during H2. If the paint was so weak that it changed and rubbed off the neck over 30 days, it would have changed more between and during H2 and it did not.
Directional spray pattern: It has been pointed out by several members, most notably the mask gallery, that spraying a Kirk mask with paint at a consistent angle of 45° (I believe) it lands almost IDENTICAL to how they paint is on the hero ‘78 mask. Hits and misses in alllll the right areas. Combine that with this being consistent on the other stunt mask, it seems this was how they were done period, which indicates flesh tones always being there IMO.
It is unclear what this mask is, still some speculation behind it.
Bill (William) Malone worked at Don Post Studios for some time, most importantly to us during the years of production for Halloween. He was the head sculptor and Vice President at Don Post Studios at one point and worked with masks, makeup, and costumes. He sculpted the Captain Kirk mask. Bill’s story has changed on this mask over years. Generally he states that TLW and John came to DPS during production or pre-production of Halloween and asked for a few Kirk masks painted white. He said that in addition to the ones he did for him, he made one for himself. That is that when “Malone Myers” is.
Many people, including myself, believe that he is mistaken on these events and recalling production of H2 asking DPS for more masks to use. I spoke with Tommy Lee Wallace personally on this and he explicitly stated that they had NO contact with DPS during production of H1. The first time it ever got brought up that DPS made masks for H1 or were consulted for it was during a 1999 lawsuit between DPS and Cinema Secrets…. There is a CLEAR bias and motive to fabricate this story in that case. To quote a friend of mine from his “DPS theory thread” (link: https://forum.michael-myers.net/t/the-don-post-theory/57438/13)
Bill Malone left Don Post Studios in 1979. He wasn’t at Don Post Studios in 1981.
Don Post, Jr. has a sign in sheet book from 1978, all years actually, that all guests have to sign before entering the work area. Back in 2013 Don asked, and I stupidly said no because I thought no one would question him, if I wanted a copy of said sheet when the Halloween people came to visit the studio… I regret it to this very day, not getting a copy.
He said 1980 on his facebook, but regardless before H2 I suppose. Maybe Bill made this after Halloween came out on his own and then coming to visit us a false memory that has been created over the years? Either way. Of DPS vs H78 crew only one of those camps would have any reason whatsoever to be untruthful.
If DPS had such a thing I imagine that would come up in discovery in the DPS v Cinema Secrets case at some point and be a part of evidence to establish them visiting.
Since I was contacted and helped Don during the Cinema Secrets lawsuit, the main thing DPS was trying to prove was that it was a DPS Captain Kirk used in the movie and that Cinema Secrets, having a license to Halloween, was copying a DPS mask. (Even modified into Michael Myers, underneath it all, its a DPS Capt. Kirk.) Sadly, the Judge didn’t quite understand the difference between a Captain Kirk sculpt and The Mask sculpt which is why they went in favor of Cinema Secrets saying DPS kept putting out various versions and using knifes with the versions in photos in catalogs emulating Michael Myers in Halloween and they didn’t have a license. The lawsuit went in a totally different area and sadly, Don’s lawyers did quite understand it either. I talked with Don’s lawyers after the judgment. That was the original argument but it went somewhere else during the preceeding. Plus, Don did get upset with the Judge as he was trying to explain the sculpts…that didn’t help either.
I’ve met Bill several times and his story is the same, and that’s since the early 90’s till now. Bill was a fan of John Carpenter and knew of him before Halloween because of Dark Star and Assault. The mask photos Bill posted a few years back are of the sister mask he had made after they left the studio in 78. No question.
Great thread here. In regards to the flesh tones, if it’s true that they were always there, I’ve often wondered why they would have left them. It just seems to me that if the idea was to have a creepy blank white mask, then surely someone would have noticed the flesh tones and said “I think you missed a spot there”, or something similar. I don’t know, it just seems odd to me that the flesh tones would have been purposely left there or even ignored altogether. In a similar vein, I’ve also wondered why they never bothered to give the mask a fresh coat of paint for H2.
You could take into account how big Castles and Warlocks head sizes are for the stretch, doesn’t necessarily have to be a “child” sized mask if they had big melons.
Leaving the flesh tones could’ve been done on purpose to create a shadowed effect. I’m sure they did all sorts of lighting tests with the mask beforehand. Spraying from an upward angle mimics a light source from above, leaving “shadows” in the spots the paint missed. Combined with Dean’s lighting, the effect would be profound (which it is). This is all speculation, obviously.
A little late to the party but I read this interview where Nick Castle said the mask was a loose fit. I made my own '78 mask using the exact same measurements posted here of the original Kirk and it’s not small, far from it, no way that’s a kid’s mask. I’m the same height as Nick Castle and 24 inch is pretty big for a man that size, my head is a lot smaller.
Not only that, but when he was young, he has a head like a roll of paper towels: thin and long. It stretched more vertically than it did around the crown.
