For years, many fans would argue that the Brother/Sister storyline “killed” the franchise, that it lead to the thorn series and the family killer angles and etc.
As we can now see, removing the sibling story has zero effect evident by Halloween 2018 and Halloween kills, which are two movies that still don’t understand since the 2nd movie what made the original famous.
John Carpenter may be bitter because he was forced to write it, he may have hated it, he may have written it drunk as he claims but Halloween II, the sibling story made sense.
It gave Michael Myers a disturbing reason why he was targeting Laurie Strode(allowing Jamie Lee Curtis to return), made his mental illness more horrific as he wanted to murder his younger sister the way he did his older, kept the story grounded like H1, and most importantly kept his character the same…
He murdered at random and wanted to murder a sister again.
He wasn’t a family murder, that came in Halloween 4. he was simply and purely… evil, and this revelation shows he was more sick then we knew in the first movie because not only does murder people at random(Alice) but also has a target and wants to revisit the murder of his sister Judith(which is also the theme of the original, with how he murders the babysitters.)
In the first two movies and even the 4th, it’s written to where it makes you root for the victims and heroine, it makes you scared and horrified at his motives, it makes you desperate to want Loomis to stop him, it makes you root against Michael Myers.
The problem since really the 4th movie is making Michael Myers into some terminator, or a family killer or a purely random killer.
None of those angles work.
The first two movies had these tropes:
Dr. Loomis chases Myers, discusses and gives the audience ideas as to how sick Myers is, how evil he is.
Makes the audience disturbed at Michael Myers murderous voyeurism.(Stalking Laurie in h1, POV scenes in H2)
Michael Myers avoids authorities and murders in stealth.
-Laurie is neither a damsel in distress nor is she Ripley from Aliens, instead she’s vulnerable yet smart.
While Michael Myers had the following traits:
-POV shots
-Heavy breathing
-Murders in stealth, avoids public or groups and isn’t that strong.
-Stalks creepily
Contrast that to the two latest films:
Overpowered murdered the entire fire department.
-Survived house fire
-Doesn’t care if people see him
No heavy breathing
-Murders like a robot.
The lack of sibling angle and the retcon of Halloween II also exposes this series.
Laurie Strode couldn’t logically have an obsession with a murderer she only encountered for 25 mins, who got locked up. it makes no sense to be paranoid about that. even if Halloween II was canon that is a stretch.
Laurie Strode H20 perfectly captures PTSD after first two movie events.
There is literally zero reason Laurie Strode of this universe should be obsessed or severely haunted by Michael Myers, it makes no sense for her to be in this movie.
It exposes that the Brother/Sister angle not only wasn’t bad as a niche fanbase who argued against it for years, but that it was a great addition to the series, it gave Myers more depth and made him more antagonizing to the audience while creating a bigger protagonist in Laurie. it gave reason for Laurie to be in the sequels and it made logical sense.
In fact without it, Halloween 78 would pose many inconsistencies and false theories, such as Michael stalking Laurie because she just went on his doorstep despite many others doing so, or claims that she reminded him of Judith despite not looking or acting like her, or even the extremes of Myers having a sexual attraction for her.
This is the very reason mainstream audiences view Laurie Strode and Michael Myers as siblings as default, going back to Original fans from the 70’s such as my mother who saw the first movie in theaters.
Either way it is now clear that angle did not impede on the series, nor did removing the angle improve it, in fact it worsened the series.
It is clear that David Gordon Green and Blumhouse do not understand what made Halloween(1978) and Halloween II(1981) the slasher standards in horror.
With all due respect, it is not clear, because this is your opinion, nothing more.
I don’t think you really understand how PTSD works, like at all. How long a traumatic event is, is irrelevant. if an event is traumatic enough, such as someone trying to kill you for seemingly no reason what so ever, after they killed two or three of your close friends, it absolutely could and its highly possible would, have a massive impact on one’s mental health, and could cause PTSD. I mean i am no expert granted, but that seems to me to be pretty obvious if you really look at it.
With that being said, I didn’t have a problem myself with the old storyline or storylines if you prefer, but honestly, the retcon likely needed to happen, because even Jamie lee Curtis herself, 19 years ago now when Halloween Resurrection came out, said that she was done with the series, because the storyline, had played out as far is it could go. you can only go so far with a storyline before it becomes repetitive and boring.
bottom line to avoid making this post longer than it already is, is this, There really is not anything in the original Halloween that suggests that there is any connection what so ever between the character of Michael Myers and the character of Laurie Strode, and you are really stretching if you think there is, and Halloween 2018 is far more in line with the original that any of the other Halloween films and the Halloween 2018 was more successful than many of the other sequels, including Halloween II, which should really tell you something about what the fanbase overall thinks about it.
I was never a fan of the brother-sister relationship, as it gave Myers a motive, which takes away from his mystery and overall creepiness. If you knew this murderer was only targeting members of his family, then unless you get in his way, you’re safe. However, as was the intention in the original 1978 film, where he had no motive or relation to Laurie, anyone could be target, which is naturally a lot creepier. Needless to say, I was happy they removed the brother-sister connection in the 2018 film, however I completely agree that it didn’t help make the film much better. I have to admit, I’m not a fan of the 2018 film, as I feel it lacked atmosphere, and Michael was shown too much, not to mention the played out Michael vs. Laurie “wrestling match” thing, which sadly doesn’t seem to be going away for Halloween Kills either. I also agree that it’s pretty clear at this point that David Gordon Green and Blumhouse don’t understand the character of Michael Myers as much as they like to lead on.
They don’t understand it at all in the slightest, they pretty much just have it be “Michael VS the Strodes” at this point, and it is just so damn boring, Jamie honestly does it for money at this point, I reckon, since she has not had any good films recently from the way I see it
It’s a fact that mainstream accepts them as siblings, it was a successful angle.
I’m gonna take this as a reach as I suffer from PTSD and it was assumptive.
It is very relevant, especially in this case when the events while traumatic, are not traumatic enough to induce PTSD for 40 years after the fact.
We’re not talking about 20 minutes in the foxhole, we’re talking 20 minutes, where only less than 5 are spent getting attacked by the murderer.
Even more extreme cases where family are murdered, or even murdered right in front of them doesn’t induce the type of PTSD the Laurie Strode character has in H2018, it is simply bad writing, which is ok to admit as it’s clear they don’t understand the character. he would be a random mental patient who flipped out on her randomly and got locked up worse this time(minimum to Maximum security), she’d have absolutely zero reason to fear him, obsess over him nor be excessive paranoid and set up traps on him as if he cares about her.
A mental patient who escaped due to a government fuck up of not sentencing maximum security, who murdered her teenage friends and chases her for 15 minutes, only to get shot 6 times out the window and then arrested doesn’t in any logical way induce a PTSD, paranoia, obsession.
Even Laurie Strode in the hospital wasn’t that paranoid, she had already started trying moving on flirting with Jimmy, only getting paranoid when something suspicious happened(phones not working) or going to sleep. she was even accepting of Michael Myers getting killed in the car accident(Ben Tramer) until susipous things happened in the hospital.
Now the extended events of Halloween II where Laurie finds out it’s her brother, further terrorizes her, murders hospital staff, gets shot 8 more times, two of which are in the eyes, then he STILL tries to come after her following an explosion until Myers dies.
THAT would cause this sort of paranoia, however even then she wouldn’t be some gun trotting pessimist, that simply isn’t her character and shows they don’t understand.
That’s the fault of Halloween’s 3-Resurrection, which isn’t involved with my topic, the brother-sister angle of Halloween II was no longer present in the series afterward, the writers of the movies following did weird stuff like make him a family murderer.
There is no stretch, Myers either murders someone randomly or because he has a reason(Judith). the reasons given for Laurie are either nonsensical(she touched his doorstep, looks like Judith) or downright laughable(he’s sexually attracted to Laurie).
There’s a specific reason he’s targeting her, saying there’s no reason makes no sense, to target implies a reason. the original ends with a cliffhanger despite John Carpenter’s claims, just like Halloween II was coherently written despite Carpenter’s claims.
Carpenter being upset about having to do it(likely because he was afraid it wouldn’t match the original and hurt his career track) is irrelevant, most people love Halloween II and mainstream audiences accept Michael Myers and Laurie Strode as siblings even if they didn’t see the 2nd movie, that tells you how successful and well written the angle was.
Based on box office?
Because by that argument Halloween 2018 is better than Halloween 1978, since it did better domestically even adjusted for inflation.
Let’s not get silly here, Halloween II is a much better movie that continues the same feel as the original, if you splice the first two together and don’t tell anyone it’s two movies, they’re gonna believe it. Mainstream audiences see Michael Myers and Laurie Strode as siblings even without having to see Halloween II, which also contributed to Halloween 2018’s box office and anticipation.
Or are we taking this on Audience score? Because then still Halloween II and H2018 have similar ratings despite H2018 having far less reviews(50,000+ to 10,000+), which would make it a far less quality movie, especially when audiences pre RT from 1981 would bump it.
The brother-sister relationship adds more mystery. Why is this guy obsessed with murdering his sister just like his older sister? what’s his problem and how can we stop him?
It adds layers, it’s creepy and adds mystery.
Now if you simply said you don’t like it, then that’s your opinion.
That’s not what we’re talking about here, that’s an story that started in Halloween 4. Myers wasn’t a family killer in Halloween II, the story was made clear, he wanted to murder his sister again, he’s obsessed with it as made clear in Halloween 1.
Again, no this is Halloween 4 and beyond Myer’s you’re talking about.
Halloween II he’s the same murderer who murders because he’s sick, as seen with Alice and the stalking/mind games with Hospital staff. he’s also targeting his sister, he’s gonna murder random people regardless. in fact in Halloween II he gives up his pursuit of Laurie and murders at random until he hears about Laurie’s location on the radio, murdering Alice for no reason.
Halloween 4 is where he starts murdering family only and anyone who gets in his way.
He clearly had a motive towards Laurie, the audience just didn’t know about. the cliffhanger shows that despite Carpenter’s bitter claims, he had a sequel in mind.
Agreed. fanatics want it both ways, they want that Laurie and Michael in the same movie and without brother-sister angle. problem is that 40 years after the original movie, such events wouldn’t induce that sort of trauma, it’s unrealistic and not consistent with the Laurie character.
THIS is what would happen with the events of Halloween II didn’t happen.
Laurie finds out Michael Myers is back in town, and she takes her family and gets out of town.
She’d have zero reason to be in the movie. that’s why they had to make her this obsessive gun trotting paranoid and run an illogical “PTSD” angle in attempt to justify her and Michael battling, when the events of the 1st movie weren’t traumatic enough to make her that paranoid and obsessed over Myers.
Even if they kept the brother-sister angle that’s still a reach for the Laurie of the first two movies.
David Gordon Green and Blumhouse simply don’t understand what made the first two movies the standard in slasher, and many don’t want to admit it.
Why?
Because the series has been remade, rebooted, and retconned way to many times that it hurts the credibility.
In the age of internet, this only worsens the series because these producers LISTEN to those fake appraisals, they listen to those who act like it’s a good movie and are in denial.
This happened with Halloween Resurrection, people were getting excited and then acted like they were ok with it, when it was a horrible movie.
It was even worse with Halloween 2007, most praised that garbage as they were in denial and didn’t want the series shit on, and that only led to Halloween 2 2009.
The same has happened here, Halloween 2018 was a horrible movie, that exposed the producers and director of not understanding the first two movies. Yet people once again give it fake praise and are in denial about how horrible and un-Myers it was which once again leads to an even worse movie like Halloween Kills.
If people were honest and criticized why Myers hasn’t worked since Halloween 4(which is ironically is more Myers like than anything after), then we’d force the hand to get a movie like the first two.
Instead the same people criticize the brother-sister angle because they want to parrot Carpenter and be a good Carpenter fan, that they divert from the actual problem. the brother-sister angle was never the problem.
The problems were the family murder angle from H4 and on, the change in masks, the change in direction after H2, making Myers like Terminator in h4 and on, making Myers as huge as a wrestler, lack of POV, lack of heavy breathing, lack of coherent storyline and mostly… LACK OF SUSPENSE.
The entire first two movies were built on suspense, he didn’t murder people every second or show himself like a Jason movie, and that’s what they’re doing in the new movies.
Mainstream audiences would disagree, as would the illogical plot of Halloween 2018 and Halloween Kills.
Sibling storyline resonated with American audiences, Laurie is seen by default as Michael Myers sister. also makes Halloween 1978 a much more developed and creepier movie.
I highly disagree. It’s human nature to fear the unknown. While Halloween II is an enjoyable sequel, it tends to cheapen the foundation of the original. Not knowing why Michael “chose” Laurie is what makes it scary. Michael having no motivation outside of pure instinct makes his character, and the film, interesting on an intellectual level. Believe it or not, not all audiences need to be spoon fed uninspired character expansion simply to further a plot point. Especially when it was the result of writer’s block and deadline requirements.
I enjoy the overall series for what it is. I also fully recognize that the sibling plot point is what has carried the franchise for 40 years. I’m not suggesting that it isn’t a fun angle. But to suggest the original film becomes more creepy due to the sequel is quite a stretch. Again, I have no problem admitting that it’s a fun plot twist, sure….but you’re basically diluting the mystique of the character by offering unneeded explanation. This is, essentially, the most common complaint about most remakes/reboots these days.
I don’t suggest that anyone should take a stance on whether or not the sibling storyline was a “good” or “bad” idea. It was an effective decision that has allowed the series to last nearly half a century. However, boldly claiming that the sibling concept improves the original? That’s where I strongly suggest that you pump the proverbial brakes and take a step back.
I’m fine with what you’re saying and if others feel the same way, but I don’t respect when you start acting like your subjective statements are truth. I’m glad you’re passionate about discussing the topic in great detail but don’t get it confused that you aren’t just arguing a subjective preference you have
They’re my opinion of course I think it’s truth and I’m going to write and argue it as objectively true.
I don’t need to write IMO, if my confidence in my arguments and points offend you, I cannot apologize. same way I don’t expect anyone to apologize for their opinions.
Someone could write Halloween 4 as an objectively good movie, I disagree, but I won’t be offended by their statement or belief.
If you disagree with my arguments and logic laid out, debate them, civilized.
But to tell someone you don’t like that they believe in what they present? That’s pointless.
How so?
We already know why, because he wants to kill her, there’s no mystery there lol
The audience already knows he wants to kill her. so there’s no mystery behind it, so there’s only a few possibilities of why he’s targeting her when it’s clearly established in the first two movies that he kills others randomly.
And the reasons are quite laughable and cheapen the original movie entirely, here are some of them:
He finds her sexually attractive
-She went to his doorstep
-She reminds him of his sister Judith
None of those reasons work in this universe where he’s a random killer, he’d simply move on to someone else, those reasons Cheapen the foundation of the original film and are intellectually dense, they’re nonsensical.
The sibling angle is a well written story that makes Michael Myers even more creepier and answers why he’s targeting her while killing others at random as well in the original movie.
Yet in the movies he clearly has a motivation with this character, as he’s clearly targetted her, so that doesn’t work.
There’s no spoonfed expansion, it simply wraps up the story and creates a further investment in the characters via story revelation, the same way Darth Vader being revealed as Luke Skywalker’s father did, which along with that is one of the most popular and well received story reveals in Cinema History.
Carpenter not liking it because he was forced to do the movie doesn’t change that it was the most important story in the entire film series, to the point where mainstream audiences see Michael Myers and Laurie Strode as siblings by default, even without seeing the 2nd movie.
Retconning that brilliant siblings story has only worsened the series evident by 2018’s reboot film, either Myers is a random killer and Laurie has no possible reason to be targeted as the possible reasons attempted are cheap and intellectually dense.
As shown above, it does improve the series, the same way the Star Wars revelation did. it ties up logical inconsistencies of the original film while adding in a shocking yet brilliant reveal that Laurie Strode is Michael Myers sister.
As seen in the 2018 Halloween film and upcoming 2021 film removing the plot completely not only cheapened the original film’s foundation but created over the top logical inconsistencies.
A niche subset vocal minority Carpenter fanatics online rallied against the sibling plot in effort to parrot and/or be a good Carpenter fan, as he hated the fact that he had to make Halloween II, as he’s known to be anti-authority. he even goes so far as to claim he wrote it drunk, which whether true or not, doesn’t help his case as it was some of his best writing with having it continue on the same night and Laurie Strode being Michael Myers sister, so either he wasn’t drunk like he bitterly claims or he’s a better more logically consistent writer when drunk.
As he wrote a sequel that became more iconic than the original film, as mainstream audiences by default have Michael Myers and Laurie Strode as siblings. even without having seen Halloween II. That right there is not a mere storyline improvement, that’s creating a classic story, so much so it trumps the original.
This is really just cycnical thinking to think the sibling story is cannon, Carpenter didn’t do it, but he was forced to, if anything, the original purpose for the films was to be the first movie, then season of the Witch, then something else completely different, had the second film not been made in 81, the whole franchise would be completely different
He wasn’t forced to write the sibling storyline, he was forced to make the movie. what he wrote was up to him. in this case it was brilliant and he created one of the biggest pop culture classic storylines in Michael Myers and Laurie Strode being siblings, to the point where by Default, mainstream audiences see them as siblings even without having seen 2nd film.
The story line of Michael Myers and Laurie strode really isn’t all that pop culture famous as your trying to define it. Just step back and look for the reason why this storyline was added in h2, and it was obviously just to progress the story forward and a simple way to explain more of what’s going on to the audience, because when you make a sequel you need to progress the information being told to give the film more value, rather than just extending the first movie. Then from there on the sequels just progressed under the concept that Michael is just after his relatives. Now if you wanna talk what’s really objectively true, the sibling storyline only cheapens what made the first film effective because it entirely contradicts what carpenters intention with the character of Myers was. Which is largely to remain a mystery so his choices and actions couldn’t be fully understood. that puts the entire town more in fear that it could have been anyone Michael became fixed on stalking and murdering when he came home. I feel the sibling concept just puts a box around his character and makes us understand his motives, which wasn’t the intention his character was built from. And if the concept of the original Halloween doesn’t do it for you, and you feel better thinking they’re related that’s fine. But arguing it as it’s objectively better for narrative isn’t you just have your own opinion, it’s you being arrogant.
