The "Don Post" Theory

There has been a claim on the forum that Don Post Studios made the mask(s) for the original Halloween. I’m having trouble accepting this theory, and it’s a pretty big divergence from the previously accepted narrative that Tommy Lee Wallace has told for decades. I haven’t heard any compelling evidence for this theory, and it seems to be based around claims Don Post Studios made in a 1999 court battle with Cinema Secrets for the rights to “Michael Myers”; a case in which they not only lost, but presents an obvious bias for this claim. Otherwise, I’ve only seen people try to prove this with the mere opinion that the Hero seems to be made better than the other two masks; which is not very compelling “evidence” if you ask me.

Can anyone present their case for this theory?

I’d like someone to present a case for this theory (supporting evidence, quotes, photos, sources, etc.) because I don’t believe it’s even close to substantiated by any of the evidence we’ve been presented with so far. It’s seemingly becoming accepted as plausible, and if false, will complicate our perception of the mask. I have no reason to doubt Tommy Lee Wallace’s original story, so I ask, can someone present me with why I should?


Evidence Submitted So Far –

1. Don Post says they were consulted to make the original masks.

This was only revealed during one of Don Post’s court cases battling for the rights to the Shape mask against Cinema Secrets in 1999. This can not be stated as evidence, as their intention to secure the rights to a mask they did not own is an apparent and obvious bias.

It is also possible that these people are mistaking their experience from Halloween II for the original. I somewhat doubt that a low budget 1970s slasher flick would have consulted a mask studio, considering a history of low budget slashers using cheap store bought masks (even altering them sometimes). This was merely a trend of the time.

2. The eye cuts are too good to be done without experience, and were probably done by an industry professional from Don Post.

I don’t believe it is difficult to enlarge the eye cuts on a mask. We may feel they are difficult because, in our community, we are trying to replicate the original mask. Replicating eye cuts can be tedious and attention oriented to get the right form and shape, but simply cutting a larger rim around the eyes of a mask is not necessarily difficult.

3. It’s possible that the hero mask’s hair is dark to it’s roots, suggesting different hair than the original Kirk hair was used. A Don Post employee must have used dark hair.

Even if the hair is indeed dark all the way through, that is not sufficient evidence. It is possible that the hair colorant Tommy Lee Wallace may have used could seep through the hair and set more thoroughly on the mask seen today. It is heavily suggested through the behind the scenes photos that the hair was not consistent on the original mask, and reveals a lighter color underneath (as if it was misted over the top and styled). I might also mention the old theory, that the hair was removed and semi-dyed when the mask was “converted”, as a possible explanation, though i don’t subscribe to it personally.

4. The mask may be thicker than most Kirk’s, suggesting it was specially made by Don Post.

The owner of the hero mask recently stated that the mask seems thicker than most replicas are. I would suggest that there is no standard thickness for original Kirk masks. When you cast masks, they are going to have a little variation throughout the production of them. Latex also stiffens and hardens as it ages, appearing thicker and more durable than in it’s original flexible and flaccid state.

5. A flexible mask paint was probably used on the mask

Numerous members (including myself) have had a lot of luck with spray paint. There is a tendency to think the paint will crack or flake, but we know the mask did have paint flaking off between H1 and H2. It is totally plausible that the movie mask was spray painted, and does not demand a flexible mask paint that some think is necessary.


I’m going to keep this photo attached to this thread so we remember what Don Post Studios has concocted when asked to make a Shape mask in the early 80s. The results are, needless to say, strange and dissatisfying.
pfHHVH.jpg

Well, the way I see it is it could go either way right now, but I am, and always have been, leaning towards TLW converting the hero. I have a lot of points to make so I’m going to try to make it as coherent as possible.

Part of the thing that distracts me from that conclusion (TLW converting all masks from Halloween (1978)) is the second stunt mask’s (not the School Yard mask, but the other) finishing. Just looking at this photo of Jamie, probably a year or so post-filming, in it shows it’s finishing very well. And it very obviously differs from the finishing of the other masks (Light hair, paint rubbing off, dirt on the mask, etc.)

In the interview thread, I stated that the hair color on the hero will help support whichever claim is true, Blonde hair underneath- TLW, Black to the roots- DPS.

You said that that would not prove anything, and then Mammer asked, “how would that help?”

It would and let me tell you why. If there is ANY blonde hair on that hero mask, TLW did it and not DPS. If Malone TRULY did the hero mask for Halloween (1978) there would be not a single ounce of blonde hair on the mask. It would be all dark, all the way to the roots, no blonde. The photo of the “Malone Myers” that exists in public hands indicates this. That is why it would help support one case or the other.

If the hero was done by TLW, then according to the story that has been circulated for years, he misted the hair black, he did not saturate it. This would not cause the spray to sink into every single piece of blonde hair on the mask. I mean, look at the hair on the School Yard mask:

Now, let me respond to some of the stuff said originally in the interview thread.

Malone and anyone from DPS could be EASILY mistaken that the events told in the court case took place during the filming of Halloween (1978) and not Halloween II (1981). That’s my opinion. I’m thinking that if the events DID take place it was during Halloween II. At least there is actual proof of DPS-made Myers masks on the set of Halloween II.

My question to this is why would TLW not mention the DPS story for 30+ years, and then all of the sudden start? Seems like his mind playing tricks on him or something. There are pretty much 2 possibilities. Either he forgot, or he was tricked into believing this.
I learned in my introduction Psychology class that false memories can be created by giving someone a piece of information and presenting it as fact. One of the studies was as follows:

A group of subjects were gathered, then the researchers asked family members to give them 5 childhood photos (kept a secret). The researchers then made a 6th photo of a false memory (for instance, a photoshopped image of the subject at a hot air balloon festival as a teen, when that never actually happened). The subject was asked to identify which photo was a lie. Almost all subjects either picked one of the 5 real ones, or they said that all of them happened.

This also happens in criminal confessions. By using the incorrect phrasing, language, and questions, interrogators are able to convince a suspect that they committed a crime, when they did not. Here’s an article on it, if anyone cares to read it.

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/people-can-be-convinced-they-committed-a-crime-they-dont-remember.html

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When looking at the hero eyecuts unworn they aren't very symmetrical, in my opinion.

In regard to Michaelanterns comment of

> The stunt mask is much more what you would expect from someone with little to no experience.

, I assume he is speaking of the stunt mask that we have clear pictures of, the second stunt mask (not school yard). When looking at this mask it's very clear that it looks to be the most professionally done. The dark hair, even paint job, etc.. If any were indeed made by DPS, this looks to be the top contender. Most people with "experience" are trying to replicate the hero eyecuts which is of course much more difficult then just cutting a set of them, but if I were to just cut a pair it would be easy to get them within general accuracy in terms to the size and shapes of the hero ones. There are a several jagged and flat cuts on the Hero eyecuts, in my opinion.

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All of this being said, I lean towards the theory of DPS not making the hero, but I still think it's somewhat up in the air.

Those are just my thoughts on it lol. Would love to know more of yours and everyone else's.

Pose the question to Don Post and TLW ? I see Don is working with TOTS now

Well the question has been posed to Don and he seems to have answered. A written response from TLW is what I’d like to see, but like I said about the psychology stuff he might be mistaken. But he could also be telling the truth.

It’s possible the hair could have been misted several times to help achieve the darker hair look they were going for back in '78
if the hair was done by don post like I said in the interview thread
what would explain the patch of blond showing through on the hair in this shot
Screen Shot 2018-01-21 at 8.19.15 PM.png

What


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what

Your post isn’t clear at the end


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sorry, is it clear now?

Yes, thank you! I think that blonde hair showing through is a great indicator, honestly. You can see it in the closet scene too. It’ll be interesting to see what Mark provides us.


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Yes, thank you! I think that blonde hair showing through is a great indicator, honestly. You can see it in the closet scene too. It’ll be interesting to see what Mark provides us.


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To me the picture eliminates that don post made the hero, if there is blond patches in it, that has to be the work of TLW.
even if Ken says its dark to the roots or not

If Ken says it’s dark all the way to the routes

Well then I think it either
A) It got sprayed with more hair color somewhere throughout the end of H1 or near beginning on halloween 2, what also leads me to believe that further is I can not find any pictures where the hero in h2 has blonde, I only see light brown.
B) The color in the hair bled, and spread throughout the rest of the hair. Believe it or not I actually had a mask when I was younger that had blondish hair that I sprayed with black hair color, and over time from just handling it by the hair, touching it, styling it, it eventually turned into a medium tone brown from plain use. Cheap hair color definitely doesn’t only stick to certain parts of hair and dye only that part, it’s cheap stuff it bleeds into other parts of the hair over time. Which explains why you can see in the closet scene that the hair on the mask looks brown, and in halloween 2 you see a lighter brown from what I can only guess is from more use.

If Ken says it’s blonde all the way to the routes

Well then I simply retract some of the my theories and the hair color they used, did not bleed all the way to the routes.

The possibility that the hair is dark to it’s roots – If it is revealed that the hair is indeed dark all the way through, that is not sufficient evidence of who created the mask. It is possible for the hair colorant to have seeped through, and set more thoroughly on the mask seen today.

Let’s not forget, we’ve seen what Don Post has concocted when they’ve been asked to make a Shape mask in the early 80s. The results are, nevertheless, strange and dissatisfying.
pfHHVH.jpg

^^^^^^^^^

I’m going to continue updating my original post as new information comes in.
Screen Shot 2018-01-22 at 8.25.44 PM.png
84billmalone.jpg

Did TLW create the HERO? did DPS create the HERO? Like all of you I don’t have the evidence. Just MY opinion, facts, and some info.
Thickness theory. 1. No two masks are likely going to be the same thickness.
2. Most latex as it ages hardens, and thickens.
3. Your version of thick, and my version of thick are probably different.
Hair color theory. 1. As has been stated already. Hair colorant, or spray has a tendency to bleed, rub off, and into the rest of the hair.
2. Multiple applications most likely would have been used to achieve continuity.
In my opinion. TLW created the HERO as he, Dean, Debra, John, and many others stated. A few things to consider. The hair on the HERO mask is not 1 consistent color. Like dark brown, or light brown, or blonde, It is multiple colors. This can easily be seen in the Sean Clark footage of the HERO. My theory is that in H2 they restyled the hair with the colorant because it rubbed out from sitting around, and being handled after H1. This is why the hair style is different, More matted down, and felted, etc. As far as the paint goes. The paint from H1 to H2 has aged, and picked up more dirt? chemicals? hair colorant? Who knows. However there is clearly flesh tones that most likely would have been covered up if the mask were painted by a pro. Also the glue lines from the sideburns does not resemble the work of a pro either. Also as I stated above about thickness. I think what Mark was saying is that the High End masks available are too thin. Which I can attest to having owned a few NAG masks. In other words Just because Mark mentions thickness does not meen that He is saying that the HERO is a Thick mask. As far as Believing that The HERO could have been made by an amateur? YES. I think it was. However just because TLW was an amateur mask artist as far as I know anyway, does not meen that he was an amateur artist. Personally I think TLW is a Great Artist! Definitely one of my Favorites.

We will never know for sure, we can only speculate based on what we see and taking into consideration the conflicting accounts. Your guess is as good as mine. What I don’t get is the idea that TLW was an “average Joe” and no way capable of a Kirk conversion that turned out as nice as the Hero. I mean he was the production designer for the film, for an example, he modified the door that he punched through as Myers so he could do that with no issue. He also came up with the wrench idea on the station wagon. He was crafty and it was his job to be so. The “average Joe” idea is irrelevant anyway as you can see on the early Myers masks pulled out of OG Kirk mold offered by Don Post privately that the eye cuts were inconsistent.

I’d just like to say that if there is a shred of blonde hair on the hero (and there is) that it completely contradicts the theory that DPS made them. According to Malone’s testimony, and the mask he made for the court case replicating “what he did for the film makers” they were custom made with full black crepe, not misted blonde. This is a huge plot hole in the theory that DPS did the hero.

This is all my opinion, obviously.

I honestly don’t find the “Don Post Theory” remotely credible. As I understand it, no one who was around in 1978 has claimed it is true except Don Post Studios when they gave their side of the story and blatantly lied about other things. For example, they had the gall to claim that “The Mask” they created in 1985 had no relationship to the Halloween films (this was after being refused a license to produce Myers replicas in 1981). They even claimed that the mask in the film had “black hair” and was “dirty white” while their own mask had brown hair and was clean… I mean that’s really rich.

http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/00d0911p.pdf

Has Carpenter or anyone from the film corroborated their story? If not, this sounds pretty open and shut to me.

“In 1981, three years after the original Halloween film
was released, Don Post Studios requested but was not granted a
license from the filmmakers to market the Michael Myers mask.”

Damn, if they had there would be a lot more kirk masks out there.