Exactly! It wasn’t any kind of secret that the agenda was there. It was promoted as the actual driving force of the movie getting made.
Well said.
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Yep, there it is. Older movies didn’t need this garbage to get us interested, there’s plenty of movies that star women who end up as the strong hero. The difference today is they try to make women into men and that men are no good and useless. Look at that all women ghostbusters trash.
JLC spun it that way. Any woman could of spun older slashers that way as well. Scream comes to mind. Lots of girl power and dumb men in those movies just the same. Plenty of dumb men to go around in old slashers, with strong women coming out on top. It’s all in how the narrative gets spun in the media. So there is definitely room for debate.
Let’s take a look at a few of the Halloween films: H1, aside from Loomis and Brackett, it’s all women except for Bob. And Bob was a real winner, especially when he’s talking about taking Lindsay’s clothes off. Dumb, useless.
H4, Brady cheating on his girlfriend, tries to put in some defense, but ultimately dumb and useless when he’s too dumb to realize he’s shot two rounds out of a double barrel and didn’t reload. Wild redneck mob firing at anything that moves killing their own in the process. Somewhat useful in the end, but still pretty wreckless and dumb, and drunk.
H5, basically all men including the clown cops are dumb and useless, except Loomis and Meeker.
H20, Laurie’s boyfriend useless, another dumb itchy trigger finger. Her son, while a valiant effort to save his girlfriend, gets stabbed and then has to depend on her to pick his ass up. The other dude was just useless all around.
And when you do get strong secondary men in a Halloween, you get “Trick or treat mother Fu**er!!!” I can live without that garbage.
As for H18, I didn’t think Aaron or Hawkins were dumb and useless. Aaron did his best to fight Myers, and Hawkins was strong until Sartain caught him by surprise. Hardly dumb and useless. So really, it’s no different. I see nothing about it that is any different than what I mentioned with the older films.
It’s exactly what I said, if it’s already in the back of your mind, in this case JLC put it in the back of your mind in her interviews, then of course your going in looking for it. In today’s climate you don’t even need JLCs spin, it’s already at the forefront of today’s culture, thus most will go in looking for it.
I can take several old slashers and put that spin on it to someone who has never seen them, and they will come out of it seeing just that. I don’t listen to media or anyone spinning anything, I just enjoy movies for what they are. It’s not that hard. I don’t let any of that crap dictate if I found something entertaining or not.
With that said, I hated the all women Ghostbusters movie, not because it’s all women, just because it was a garbage movie.
Exactly this
I personally am getting really sick and tired of this “girls are badass, resourceful action heroes and men are useless incompetent goofballs and scumbags” trope in horror movies. We really need to start having more smarter, stronger and competent male characters.
The ending of Halloween (2018) is kind of reminiscent of the ending in Quentin Tarantino’s Death Proof, where the girls that Stuntman Mike (ironic how the name is the same) was stalking and terrorizing unexpectedly switch roles and begin to do the same to him. Prey turns into the predator. Eventually giving him a brutal beat down once they catch him.
Just to put my thoughts out there regarding the roles of men and women in this series - unlike most slashers from the 70s/80s (I’d hesitate to lump Halloween in with the “80s slashers”) I don’t think that Halloween was ever a series where the women are clearly more resourceful useful or competent - I don’t even think that this is a series where the protagonists are overwhelmingly female. We have Laurie yes but we also have Loomis who is definitely more prominent in H2 ('81) and of course features as the sort of ‘returning protagonist’ in 4 5 and 6 leaving Loomis and Laurie in similar roles of prominence (that is until kills and ends tip the balance totally) whilst we also have Tommy in H6 as the main protagonist, whilst Rachel is the main protagonist in H4 in H5 it really ends up being a very Loomis centric film. Jimmy and Brady are prominent secondary characters in their films - similar to Annie and Lynda in the original. What I’m getting at here is that there is no overwhelming prominence of female protagonists over male here. The first two films are sort of presented as having both Loomis and Laurie in the lead (in actuality Laurie is definitely the lead in H1 whilst Loomis is in H2) this continues into H4 to an extent though again the protag here is 100% Rachel, then H5 I think is clearly Loomis in the lead - you could argue along with Jamie though she doesn’t say a damn word for a good long while so her prominence is damaged a little there. H6 is Tommy. H20 is Laurie. HR exists. Fuck.
To sum up my wall of text we don’t have any dominance of female protagonists over male here - as a result I think any argument justifying the H18 situation by saying we’ve always had women acting more competently/prominently than men in this series is bull. That said I actually don’t think it was too bad in H18 - sure the three strode ladies had plot armor and sure they are all women but to be fair John Tate had plot armor, Loomis and Tommy sure as hell do and so this is nothing too exceptional. JLC talked a lot and her talks were not great but in the film itself those ideas weren’t exactly dominant.
Also sorry for rambling - I’ll try to keep it short next time.
Can’t argue with that. I certainly wasn’t saying that it was a case of powerful women in the Halloween series, just that it could be spun as such if someone really wanted to go there. And that there were plenty of throw away dumb men throughout. I specifically stated Loomis, and usually the current sheriff were the strongest male characters. There are some exceptions here and there, of course.
And that’s exactly how I feel about H18, where it was not that in your face as people seem to view it as. JLC really hyped it up as such, then when I saw the movie, I was like ok, this is not nearly what she was hyping it up to be like. It was just a Halloween movie to me. Not the best, but certainly a good movie to have fun with.
As I said, Aaron was not a dumb useless character, he tried his best to fight Myers but ultimately lost that fight. Hawkins was strong, but caught by surprise by Sartain. So really, it wasn’t anything near what JLC hyped it as. Unless your going into it digging for that theme of course.
Very valid points man and I like the way you worded all of that.
I like strong male characters, just not "trick or treat mother f**ker strong lol.
yeah man…im not gonna argue with anyone but debating on agendas in the 80’s or 90’s is irrelevant compared to today…it IS a newer thing regardless of what people are debating on here…how it is a debate i do not know…and it isn’t something jamie lee spun if people read the article it states they wrote it this way…ALL then characters are pretty much stupid throughout the series aside from the heroes…this was a girl power movie and it was awkward…name an other halloween where in the end 3 women ultimately overcome and defeat michael myers…ill wait!..agendas like this dont belong in a halloween movie…
I will name one with one woman, same trauma type theme, with an ultimate defeat at the end by said woman, H20. No, it didn’t have a home alone house, but it did have the trauma theme and she was powerful in the end going all out to see him to his demise. Her son definitely didn’t do very much to help.
H18 is a similar theme with her, only now it’s her and her family. Her daughter and granddaughter are definitely not “girl power” mode until the very end. Most of the time they are scared and running for their lives or not in the scene. Laurie is a bit of a Loomis type role, and it ends up being her daughter and granddaughter who take up the “girl power” theme at the end. I’m sorry but I will agree to disagree because I just don’t see this overpowering theme. Now the next two sequels might be a whole different ballgame, we shall see. And for those who see this as being the theme of these new Halloween movies, I would just avoid seeing the next two movies to save yourself the torment of sitting through it.
Outside of Halloween however, and from the 90s, we have Sydney Prescott and Gale Weathers. Two women, who are very powerful over the killer/killers by the end. Very girl power by the end. And I love that movie.
Never even considered it girl power, and same goes for H18. You want a true girl power movie that will drive you nuts and put H18 girl power to shame? Go watch the new Black Christmas remake. Now that looks horrendous.
And you know what, your right, everyone in these movies should just be dumb stupid idiots, this way no one can complain. Keep it neutral. The only smart one should be Myers, because that’s who I’m there to see the most anyway.
Just having a fun little back and forth here about this, no ill will intended. We like what we like, and dislike what we dislike, and there is nothing wrong with that at all at the end of the day. 
Nah it’s just a debate all good haha, We can agree to disagree…I did like 2018 but I do feel kills will be more the movie for me, It’s sort of what I wanted for 2018…some flashbacks and characters from the past…
I thought I was the only one who noticed. They act like no movies or TV shows were ever made with strong female characters. I also hate that the agendas and quotas have replaced an actual good storyline, along with good acting, dialogue, etc.
I hope the flashback mask has the look in this shot, except without the rotting.
Personally I hope the flashback is a whole new sculpt…essentially another attempt…this time without production saying they put their own spin on it and such n such…we need a flat out replica of the original…it’s time
I’m just wondering what they’re going to do with these 1978 flashbacks. It’s been clarified that the 1981 sequel is no longer canon and that Michael has only murdered 4 people that night. So it can’t be more murder scenes, unless Michael did in fact murder more people, the the media simply didn’t find out and report it, which is highly unlikely. And It can’t just be a flashback of a young Lonnie running into Michael.
He’s gonna stalk Lonnie
It is def seeming more and more like it’s only a couple flashbacks with Lonnie, Which is kind of odd…Hopefully we get that apprehension scene or maybe even some flashbacks with Marion. I’d love love love if they referenced the first novel by Curtis RIchards…There are some great young Michael flashbacks in that one!
I agree Shadow about a24a1023ab1001 and also the part where you mentioned a1t012a31a091.
Having flashbacks to Michael as a kid would be very interesting.