I posted this on the FB group but I’m reposting it here.
Here’s a direct comparison between a refinished ToTS Elrod and a NAG Castle 75k. Firstly, I do want to say that I enjoy my Elrod and am glad I bought it (purchased from JRP85, who provided excellent and prompt service). This is just to fight the absolutely ridiculous notion that a refinished ToTS is as good as an indie mask.
The latex! ToTS latex is remarkable trash. No stretch in it at all. Gotta be mostly filler. The latex that mask makers use in the US (usually RD-407) is much stretchier. NAG uses a European medical latex, which is even stretchier on top of being soft to the touch.
The mold. The Elrod, as we know, comes from the Nightowl Psycho. The features on my Castle and Elrod look very similar. However, ToTS masks have a tendency to bulge out around the eyes and nose. This Elrod shows the bulging. Indie masks, as a result of the better latex and actually quality control, don’t feature this bulging.
Sizing. You can request certain sizes from indie mask makers but ToTS is hit-n-miss as all get out. The Elrod in particular suffers from being a smaller-than-average mask at just below 23" roughly, with no real variation.
I personally don’t see anything wrong with that TOTS Elrod, in fact it looks quite good in my opinion. I feel that TOTS gets a lot of flak needlessly. I know they seem to have terrible customer service, and Zephro is a complete jerk, and of course their masks aren’t going to be as good as a high end replica like the 75k, but why would it when it’s mass produced for $60? That’s what I can’t understand, why so many people can’t seem to get that. They buy a $60 TOTS mask, and compare it to a $500 replica, expecting it to look just as good, then they resort to trash talking TOTS.
Of course it’s not going to look as good! Why is that so hard to understand? At the end of the day, TOTS are good, solid masks that are a heck of a lot better than any other mass produced Myers mask out there, and are therefore meant for the person who is just starting out, getting into the hobby. For the high end collector…not so much. Look at it this way…you wouldn’t give a 5 year old who’s trying to learn to ride a bike a full blown mountain bike, you give them a child’s bike with training wheels. Same situation here.
I do see where your coming from, but I do think that if done right, a ToTs Kirk can get a tad bit close to a 75k, call me crazy but I’ve seen some crazy converted Kirks and they look damn good. Sure the latex is a bit stiff but it is durable and can last a long time as my H2 is my first mask, I’ve had it since 2017 and not once have I actually cornstarched it or dusted it or cleaned it in any way and it’s completely fine. I see ToTs as good starter masks, the new H1 they’re releasing looks okay, along with the H4 and 6, and they’re better than makers like “illusive concepts” who’ve made garbage masks along with lots of the rip off 2018 masks. Honestly tho, I like ToTs because even though they may have some cheap masks, you can rehaul em to make em look close to the big indie masks if you do it right or have the right person rehaul em. Just my opinion tho.
I see it more on the FB group, they seem to be mostly expunged here. It’s almost always in the comments of mask listings with people grumping about prices whining that TOTS are cheaper masks and the indie is “just a piece of latex” and shouldn’t cost that much.
Besides my frustration with the bulging eyes and size (it BARELY fits on my 23" head with the slit cut further up) and many frustrations I’ve seen with their business practices and QC, I’m not faulting the masks themselves and I want to make sure that’s understood. I bought this mask with the intention to keep it and display it. This is more to shut up people who claim, as I stated above, that others should bring down their prices on the independent masks claiming TOTS are just as good (implied that they’re just as good in every way) and that the indie ones are “just a piece of latex”. My collection features several TOTS pieces, and my Kirk I’m intending to be reredone as a post-filming hero mask. No fault on anyone for having TOTS in their collection, even prominently.
[quote=HaddonfieldBoogeyman post_id=1169228 time=1561744536 user_id=21587]
I love TOTS Masks. I’m not rich enough for those NAG pieces just yet. But once I hit the lottery I will let you guys know first.
[/quote]
Nothing wrong with that! That’s how I started I’m just debunking a bad faith idea that I see around.
I don’t mind TOTS latex, and I honestly find it pretty good quality for what it is. It doesn’t have the snap of NAG, Zagone, or even Ghoulish Pro, but it’s not a bad quality either. Justin uses a different kind of latex than Nik does, and I find the TOTS latex closer to that of NightOwl than to NAG. NightOwl masks don’t have a whole lotta snap either. Between the Maniac, the Psycho, and the Creep that I’ve owned, the stretchiest was the Creep.
The sculpt isn’t bad, either. I’ve seen some wonderful things done with TOTS masks, and although it’s not as crisp as their origin, they’re not bad either. I’ve seen some TOTS Hospitals overhauled by Rowland that look like an original Maniac. The paint is probably the worst part of TOTS masks, but again they’re just a $60 mask and you get what you pay for. In all honesty, I think $60 for a mask that I’ll probably send to an artist is a damn fine deal. Consider that a blank can cost you anywhere from $100 to $250+ depending on who you’re getting it from and the condition of the pull. $60 for a Psycho blank is a damn steal by comparison.
The sizing, again, is what it is. The expectation by not just TOTS, but by most mass produced mask makers, is that their products will be worn by children and teens. Even the original 1975 Kirk was made with that expectation. Nick Castle had to shove his chin into the neck of the mask to make it fit.
I gotta say, I think you’re being a bit harsh. That Elrod rehaul looks fantastic and I think you should be proud to own it. NAG is a different animal, always has been. Since the moment the H78 came out, NAG had been game changer in the hobby.
I apologize if this comes off harsh, but I did state that I’m very happy to own this mask. The bulging eye is dumb imo, but I’m generally quite happy with it and have no intention of letting it go. I disagree on the latex, but that’s very much a YMMV thing. This post is VERY much to debunk a bad-faith argument made by folks grumping about the price of independent masks. I can definitely see how it came off too harsh against the TOTS mask though.
What about all of the knock off 2018 masks? Or rubies? You should be thankful that ToTs exists and that you don’t have to buy true garbage from those listed above. And if you look at ToTs with the perspective of them being masks for beginners in mask collecting, it is good.
I don’t own any other tots besides the h6, h18, and Officer Francis head and man they look real good on display with my night owl creep and I got all three for under $200. I’m a huge tots fan with all this great stuff they are coming out with.
To be fair, the buggy eyes is a defining feature of the sculpt, and I recall the Psycho proto, when it was basically the mascot of this site, having very prominent eye bulges. It’s not a fault of TOTS pulls, it’s a key detail that is intentionally a part of the mask.
Im sorry for the confusion again XD I’m referring to a bulge in the Elrod sculpt specifically, at the bottom right eyelid and nose bridge. Should be visible in my photos. I’m a huge fan of the Psycho sculpt and the way the eyes look and hope to own one!
the elrod is a budget Psycho imo and I for one am damn glad that its available That’s a great copy you have and that 75k is stellar too dude. I’m looking for one right now
I totally get the point you are trying to make. I never understand why people complain about the prices of indie masks. I think they are just ignorant of how much work goes into sculpting, molding, pulling latex, painting, weathering, and hairing. They also don’t understand that value is subjective and people pay what they pay because they value the mask more than the money they are paying for it.
I think the instance that annoyed me the most is when a 4-stamp went up on eBay and was fetching a multi-thousand price, and some folks on FB emerged from the sewers to whine about the price without knowing it basically jumpstarted the hobby nearly 20 years ago and is incredibly rare.
Like, I’ve been here less than a year and I still did my research early enough to know the history.
Well I’ve seen Elrods rehauled better than which looked pretty accurate, but I agree latex is cheap and even worse the size is for a tiny kid, not even when I was 10 it would’ve fit me.
I’m just debunking a bad faith idea that I see around.
That’s a great copy you have and that 75k is stellar too dude. I’m looking for one right now 
