Where Did It All Go Wrong?

What I’m asking here is where did the Halloween franchise take its fatal turn for the worse? I’m just ineterested in your opinions, this thread is NOT meant to be a negativity thread so please no bashing. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong, it’s all opinions.

For me the turning point was Halloween 5.

Although I think the whole “sister” idea in Halloween II was a mistake, I feel the movie survived this error and was still solid.

Halloween 4 wasn’t perfect but still a good movie even with an ending I wasn’t particularly fond of viewing.

Halloween 5 is where i think the ball was really dropped and the franchise (in my opinion) has never totally recovered as a result.

The whole “psychic-link” thing between Jamie and Michael was simply absurd and useless. The mute kid, Tina, Michael crying, the “keystone cops” crap…I could go on and on. Then the movie ended with the whole Man in Black/Thorn twist which set up yet another problem by backing the series into the wall once again.

What followed was another lackluster movie, Halloween 6.

H20 was a step in the right direction but never fully captured the feel of the first few movies. Since then things have only went downhill in my opinion.

So the turning point in the series for myself was the rushed and poorly realized Halloween 5.

And H8? Did you like that one? TBH, I haven’t seen every H movie, but only; H1, 2, 7 & 8. :blush:

I didn’t like H8 but even the movies in the franchise I don’t like has apects included that I do.

I liked the first 15 minutes of Halloween Resurrection but after that I was REALLY displeased. In fact it was (in my opinion only) the lowest point in the franchise until RZ’s H2. Even H2 had a few good points. I really liked the security guard scene and the look of the mask.

h5 was crap but at least it followed the story.

halloween 8 was when i thought they should call it a day

I think the ‘idea’ of the first film would be more frightening had no other sequels had been made as there was no reasoning behind his actions meaning ‘this’ could happen anywhere. H2 did take away from this extra creepiness factor with reasoning given to Myers’ actions but I do not think Halloween II’s story line (sister, etc.) was bad at all. What TLW didn’t like about it; the gore, shock, etc., I enjoyed as it was perfect for the time and helped bring on the rest of the 80s slashers.

I also agree that H4 was a great film - I remember seeing it and being happy with the film when it first came out. Drunk on the success of the film they rushed part 5 and that’s where it went. While I think H6 was fun to watch due to the mask and atmosphere, but the story was crap. H20 was alright but they could have done so much more with Jamie Lee returning. I won’t even get into Ressurection or Rob Zombie’s jihad on the series.

Great topic, Benny. :smiley:

I think when more $$$ was introduced into the films it hurt them. Sometimes less is more and that could not be more true than the original HALLOWEEN. With a budget of $325,000 and a very small crew, they made one monster of a film. It proves that you don’t need millions of dollars to strike gold on screen.

There are also little things that took away from the magic of the original film. The mask always changing, the look of Haddonfield changing and of course, the size of Myers changing from film to film.

I agree with you Benny, H5 is where it really started to decline for me. The acting and script in part 5 is just not up to par with the previous films. Resurrection is the worst of the series in my opinion.

Nothing will ever come close to the original HALLOWEEN. I mean, that was the night HE came home.

I honestly think it had a lot to do with Friday the 13th part 6. Most Friday fans know that 6 is actually when Jason became less human and more “zombie-ish”. After 6 was released in 86, I think the Halloween series felt it had to “keep up” with the Friday series, especially with Friday the 13th part 7 being released the same year as Halloween 4.

So they made Myers more superhuman rather than just some guy in a mask. They gave him much more strength and power, a lot like Jason. They also gave him the ability to appear and disappear from place to place, again, like Jason. While the original Myers will always be scarier, in my opinion, that’s just not what people were afraid of or wanted to see 20 years ago. It didn’t necessarily matter how good the movie was, as long as the villain was iconic. There for, a change had to be made to make Myers, as a villain, more frightening.

After that change was made in Halloween 4, I feel they just wanted Myers to be more and more like Jason (who was one of the most popular horror villains of the 80s). The way he moved, the way he murdered, etc. Giving him a back story was probably just a way to spruce up the series and keep it a little less boring. I know, I know…many don’t like the whole Thorn aspect, but realistically, Myers killing his family without ever having reason was not really cutting it. I think people wanted something a little deeper.

Ofcourse, this is all my opinion. Don’t take what I said as a fact.



hold up benny hold up, I thought it was a great turn making her into a sister.

I think Halloween 4 messed it all up, I like the movie but it really derailed what the franchise could have been.

The minute Carpenter wasn’t involved.My opinion on those other movies is that other than a scene or two in H4,they were not suspenseful.Michael attacking Jamie in her room,or her seeing him while shopping for a costume.That is all that comes to mind,truthfully.I feel everything from that point tried too hard and came off generic.I don’t feel those movies were any better than the other movies in the Friday or Nightmare franchises were.Rule of thumb with horror movies,they rarely survive one sequel.The dead horse starts taking a beating at that point.I told Dick Warlock that I felt Michael died in the HMH explosion when I met him.That is how I feel.

After Halloween 2…it was all down hill after that…in 4 the whole little girl thing and the mask change was just crappy…and 5 just plan out sucked…6 the mask was okay but the whole thorne and man in black(i never new Jonny Cash was a movie star) then after that it just got stupid…it was all about the money…lets just show JC’s halloween on the big screeen every halloween would be better then the crap that is made now

Mike

And there is nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

The problem for me is it gave Michael a reason where before one did not exist leaving his purpose, reasoning and intentions totally unknown and therefore more frightening.

quick question, so did michael chase lourie, just because she dropped the key at his house right and he saw her, and so he got mad right?

Halloweens1-7 were great H8 would have been better without busta rhymes That guy is freaking annoying ! :imp:
But I really like the h8 masks and another thing i didn’t like was how week Michael seemed in that one.

h8 was a major fail, besides the mask, i mean dude in h8 he gets his but kicked??? by a rapper???, they used h8 to introduce new actors, which really pisses me off because it is such a great franchise.

Absolutely and AMEN Benny!!

I agree with you benny it was HalloweeN 5 when it started slipping.I used to have all the myers mask when one day I realized all I really watch is the original HalloweeN and decided I didn’t want to collect any other myers masks other then from the original film.But in the end that worked out good for you benny because you have" IMO " the best H5 mask created because of my decision to give up on the series of halloween films.Amy :smiley:

Thanks Randy. His mystique is what made him “The Shape” and what I wish he would have stayed as.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Could be it was the first person to “invade” his home, could be seeing her triggered something, perhaps something else. That’s the whole point…his intentions were unknown.

Thanks Amy and I still have that H5 with no intentions on selling it. How many times do you get a mask that was made up to be presented to the actor who played Myers??? Him not showing up and you finally getting your hands on this mask & you selling it was GREAT luck for me. Now if you would just get tired of that Maniac… :mrgreen:

Great topic man, I enjoy all of the films (even with the dozens of flaws in 4-RZH2) but I think they should have let Michael die at the end of H2 IMO, After H2 michael should have been left alone, and they could have possibly had (a much better) H20, or then possibly coughed up a much better and original feeling remake just as they did with Friday the 13ths remake (which i enjoy very much)

It’s amazing how,lighting,certain camera lenses,atmosphere,musical tones and pacing of that music all plays a huge role in what we deem to be good or bad in cinema.I think these things all played to the downfall of tha latter films.Character became not important and Michael became too important.We no longer sympathyzed with the victims like we did in 1,2,and even in 3(a little)4 the atmosphere started to come back a little and then in 5 was destroyed for obvious reasons…6-lame characters…lame acting and making Michael some supernatural entity and yes making him overweight was stupid…The only thing good about 6 was the presence of Donald Pleasance…He held it together and it’s here after his death where things hit even lower.The powers that be just wanted to make another movie and oh let’s put a bunch of dialogue Jamie Lee curtis says in the first one in…hell lets just bring her back all together!.Now the atmosphere was ok and it started to feel like a Halloween movie granted…oops…lame mask changing every scene…lame acting and yes the setting became raelly lame as well…oh and they put a rap star in it.Jamie Lee Curtis had no choice but to lowere her standard to her co-stars acting level and it’s not her fault.Then we come to 8…worst of first. Green screen BG’s ANOTHER rap star!!!..Tyra banks?..Lame mask…lame, lame, acting!! Jamie Lee in an asylum?..she dies so non-importantly!!!..how could this not be an important moment to these guys making this piece -o -crap?..This is Laurie Strode for hell’ sakes!!..And now what is there for Michael to do?..Oh yeah’ there are some pesky kids on my lawn so I’m gonna go kill em’…I wont write about Zombie’s crap because his stuff sickens me and really has no merit in good cinema.Even good horror Cinema.Snuff films maybe.

Now with all this said I think that one of the biggest problems is that these movies are being made with no intention for a continuance…meaning they think each one will be the last so they try to make it as outlandish as possible…Wonder why 1-2 worked?..Because it was treated as a continuance and on the same night which was perfect…4-5 had a little of it too because they characters and the settings weren’t too different…but Michael and they mask were different which threw it off a tad.I have no clue on what they can do to reprise the franchise and make it what it used to be…I feel it will be futile anyway like obtaining the infamous 75-kirk mask and converting it to look JUST LIKE the h-1 mask itself!!!..It’s now a ghost and very much needs to be…as long as H-1 and H-2 exist?..there will always be these questions and no clear answers,just opinions.John Carpenter and his crew did it right…plain and simple.There will never be another.But it takes more then the right acting and props…timing,atmosphere,lighting,music,…Halloween 1-2 had these elements in spades.I would love to see another well thought out Halloween that reminds me of the streets I use to run as a kid on Halloween…I have experienced this only a handfull of times while watching a movie and I long for it every time.I think film makers have to put ego aside and ask themselves questions like"what will this do to the series" ,How would John have approached this shot?" “will this be seen in this way or that?”…These kinds of questions (especially in the Halloween franchise) are important.So I guess there are no clear answers on why things went wrong or where because each film has it’s highs and lows and cannot be connected to any one certain moment of let-down…They all have them and thats’s just the way it is. :open_mouth:


GG