not saying that you dont know someone who knows someone but the way you make it sound is though rz H2 is WAY in the whole, so far in the whole it wont even be released on dvd. H2 is in the profit zone. not to the extent they thought or hoped it would be based on the success of the remake but they are in the profit zone and i expect it to do well internationally and will sell ALOT of dvd’s and blue-ray when released. a few months after the dvd is released and those sales are calculated, and all the smoke clears rz H2 will be a money maker for them. its already made to much money to be a flop.
but you dont have to worry, im sure rob wont be making another Halloween 
Embodied,
Please my friend, pay attention what I wrote. I didn’t say “…no DVD’s/BluRay releases” I said, they plan to spend next to NO money on marketing and promoting the DVD releases. They plan to extremely minimize the cost of promoting the DVD’s via print, TV, viral etc. They don’t have the funds.
Now, as for the “profit zone” you are again, incorrect. This is coming from their own mouths dude, they have not made back the money it cost to film and market this picture. They had a shooting cost and they had a seperate budget to market and promote the film. They have yet to make back all the money it cost them to market/promote and shoot the film. That is NOT the profit zone. They are still in the hole on this film. Problem is, they closed their overseas offices and don’t really have a budget to market over there either.
Disney has severed all ties with them and they have a skeleton budget now i.e. they have nothing substantial. If Disney were still there, they’d have the resources and backing to make it all go away. Unfortunately, they don’t.
Then if this is the truth why is Bob Weinstein making announcements like this today …
Variety has revealed the name of the filmmaker who’s currently in discussions with Dimension Films to write and direct HALLOWEEN 3-D, which the company announced the moment it was clear the dimensional FINAL DESTINATION had trounced HALLOWEEN II at the box office. The trade also reports that Dimension is at work on yet another CHILDREN OF THE CORN flick.
Patrick Lussier, who has a long history with Dimension (editing the SCREAM pics and helming the DRACULA franchise), and most recently revisited another classic slasher in 3-D with MY BLOODY VALENTINE, is the man in talks to do the latest Michael Myers adventure. A summer 2010 release is currently being targeted. Meanwhile, SCREAM 3/THE SKELETON CREW scribe Ehren Kruger has been hired to pen a new adaptation of Stephen King’s “Children of the Corn” tale, which has already inspired the 1984 New World release, several Dimension-issued sequels and a redux that hits the Syfy channel and DVD this fall (go here for info on that one).
“We felt the New World film was a missed opportunity,” Dimension topper Bob Weinstein tells Variety. “If you read the short story, it’s got such a strong feeling to it and there’s this religious overtone to it as well. Ehren wants to hit it hard. It’s popular in Hollywood to say you’re re-envisioning a project, but a lot of the time they’re just carbon copying the original. We are bringing something new to the story.”
This is taken from Fangoria online today…
I thought RZ said the total budget for H2 was 18M, although he could be wrong.
Spooky,
He is IN TALKS with Dimension. And he likely will take the gig I’m told. However, what does that really have to do with anything? It doesn’t change the facts that Dimension is in deep shit financially and will likely fold in the next 5 years if they don’t get things going with new financial backers. Gloomy days are ahead.
I only mention it because Bob is announcing new projects.
During this recession all companies have been hit within the industry. I work for a large national TV channel here in Europe. Cuts are happening everywhere within and it is currently being re-structured day to day. It’s a global matter. What I am saying is that Zombies “H2” can not be blamed on the losses and cut backs within Dimension. I doubt they would have put all their hopes into it saving the company. If things were that bad… not even a 40 million opening weekend could have saved the company.
They’ll keep announcing them until the door is physically nailed shut on the place, and rightfully so. That’s the best way to keep stockholders happy and to keep them from selling their shares and running away. However, that’s already happening.
I’m confused…
First you say it is a “BIG if” regarding H3D happening, then you say Lussier would likely take the job. How could he likely take a job if it was a BIG if? I seriously doubt Lussier would do anything direct to DVD.
Please explain.
Blake,
I was told things might not happen with H3D/H3, atleast not on the time table they have left themselves. Think about it, they now have LESS than one year to secure a writer/director, come up with funds, get distribution, FILM the movie, aquire a composer and SCORE the film, edit and release. And lets not forget, 3D puts things under even MORE pressure.
So, let’s say it actually DOES happen in the time frame they’ve alotted for themselves. The film will be terrible. Nothing rushed is EVER golden i.e. Halloween 5. Look at this from a logistic standpoint, they’ve given themselves next to zero time to make it happen.
When talking with my guy, he actually laughed at the prospect of getting a hit movie done from concept, to start to finish in less than one year. He even said a major studio, and I quote, “…would NEVER back a film with it’s cash on an unrealistic timetable” He went on and said “…it’s a recipe for disaster” He also made mention of how obvious it is that the character is no longer considered a beloved one by it’s owners if they’re just willing to ‘assembly line’ these films with little to no regard for the integrity and the history of the franchise. He said it’s become all about the money to them and that nothing else matters.
This is why the franchise needs time off, new owners and a new direction. Fuck it, if you’re going to go 3D, then do it right. Take the time, 2-3 years, iron out a great story with great effects to honor the 3D legacy and do it properly. Rushing from disaster to potential disaster is only going to further damage the franchise.
As for Patrick directing, the way I hear it is that he’s almost being forced to do it as they have nobody else on the table. It’s easy to negotiate with Lussier when you hold his contract in your hands, but it’s NOT easy to find a name genre director that wants to touch Halloween at this point, especially with the 3D gimmick tied into it.
thewholefknshow has been pretty accurate in terms of how Hollywood works. It’s all about PR and saving face when producers are talking to any kind of press. They’d never admit to losing money on a movie. They way they put H3D on a fast track proves they are desperate to make another movie. Look at the remake, it was a hit, but did they rush to make part 2 the next year? No. Signs of desperation are never a good thing for sequels. The fact that they’re caving in on the 3D concept shows they’re following what other movies are doing and not waiting for a good story. They want to cash in on the 3D craze before it’s too late.
He’s also right that the marketing costs is never accounted for when a movie’s official budget. Why? Because the money allotted to the filmmakers is only for the work on the film. Marketing is another department. Film companies have another team of people to work solely on marketing. It’s very rare for a filmmaker to work on the marketing. Usually, the film distributor has a go-to company or in-house team to make the posters, trailers, radio spots, etc. This is mostly left out of the hands of the director and doesn’t count to the film’s official budget. Look at the budgets posted on IMBD and all of them only cover the pre-production, production and post-production work.
All in all, we’re going to get another bad movie because the producers are following a trend and not doing something different by actually hiring a good writer to complete a well written script. But as long as it has Myers, bloody kills scenes and the occasional pair of tits, most people will be happy. The cycle continues.
Darkly,
Thank you for pointing those things out. Sometimes people continue to look past the reality of how filmmaking and the behind the scenes issues play out in terms of the business. Now keep in mind people, I never claimed to be an expert on these matters, and I too have had to learn how it all works and such. But I have the VP of Walt Disney Entertainment telling me how it goes, I’m more than certain that he knows more about the business than any of you and certainly more than myself.
You guys can keep on trucking and telling me that I have no idea what I’m talking about, these are all rumors and blah, blah, blah. But the facts are facts, and the numbers don’t lie. H2 opened in THIRD place, banking SIGNIFIGANTLY LESS money than RZH back in '07, and on top of that, in it’s second week of release it dropped to SIXTH place. After next weeks box office, it won’t even be on the top 10. You guys can bark all day about overseas and international numbers as if they make a difference, but they don’t. In terms of successful filmmaking and overall numbers, North America is the ONLY thing that matters. David Hasselhoff is HUGE in Paris, that doesn’t mean he’s the shit in his native America. H2 was a bust BIGTIME, and as Darkly made mention, they are rushing into H3D/H3 as a means of saving face. They need to bounce back from H2, if H2 was the success story some of you are still dreaming it was, then they’d sit back and enjoy the profit making well into the new year and ultimately into the DVD releases of the film. However they aren’t doing that, infact, they’re rushing to get a new product out before the failure of this one sets in and people lose interest in the character altogether.
You guys all laughed at me when I told you that Malek was the one who lobbied for Zombie to come back and that the execs wanted something different. That was proven to be true also, the execs DIDN’T want him, they had other plans all throughout the filming of H2 (H3D) Harv and Bob were prepping H3D from the start of H2 REGARDLESS of how Zombie ended it. And from what I’m told, Zombie re-wrote the ending of H2 to definitively kill Michael, thus making it harder for TWC to produce another film. The back and forth power struggles were well documented on this project. The execs wanted one thing, and Malek and Zombie wanted another.
2 things that I CAN tell you is that 1) Laurie Strode will not be the killer in H3D/H3 and 2) Michael is not dead. Look for a majority of the events from H2 to be, as the late-great Biggy once put it, “…it was all a dream…”
I do recall chatting with Malek at his 30 years of terror party last October in Pasadena and had said how much I loved RZ’s vision of “Halloween” but that I was excited about the talks that the two French Directors of “Inside” would be involved in the sequel as I really loved that movie also. In not so many words Malek disclosed to me that Rob was in fact returning to direct the sequel. So you are right that he lobbied for him.
One thing I have to dis-agree on is the importance of the overseas market. Movies that were unsuccesful in North America can make tons of money overseas and become a hugh success… look at Donnie Darko… It was the overseas market that made it the cult hit that it became… the original “Halloween” of 78 made $8 million from overseas runs alone. The Halloween remake made $21,977,438 from the overseas market alone. I can not see how the overseas market doesn’t matter to the film companies considering the figures I have offered above… Money is money after all.
Also one point to note. Series fave “Halloween 4” made only $6,831,250 on it’s opening weekend and it’s gross total was only $17,768,757 in the U.S.
Robs H2 grossed close to that with $17,405,000 in it’s opening weekend alone. Also remember that it opened against A 3D craze movie “Final Destination”… the remake only had to compete with a non horror “3:10 to Yuma”. Also “Halloween II” in its second weekend grossed $5,745,206, thats more than the remake grossed on its second weekend at $3,093,679.
Spooky,
Overseas is infact “money” but that money goes to their overseas division, the same division that makes so little money overall, that they just closed up shop. So, do the math, even with the overseas money coming in on their films i.e. Inglorious Basterds, RZH, H2 etc, the place STILL was completely disolved. Hence, the overseas market is not going to save this film by a long shot.
Infact, the tale-telling market is, was and will always be North America. What the film does here is basically the telling tale of what it’ll do for the most part. Overseas will make a bit of money, but FAR less than what it makes here in the US and in Canada. You said it yourself, Halloween 1978 made roughly 8 million from overseas distribution. But in North America is made 40+ million. Hence the overseas market is a small take in the grand scheme of things.
The gross of Halloween 4 in 1988 can’t be compared to a film in 2009, that’s just ridiculous to even attempt my friend. The economy, the state of film production, costs and revenues are not comparable to what they were 21 years ago. Films cost alot less to make back then, so the numbers for Haloween 4 were outrageously good for Moustapha and crew.
Bottom line, with the numbers that RZH drew back in 2007, H2 was EXPECTED to make alot more than what it did in it’s 3rd place opening, and subsiquent 6th place showing of it’s second week run at only 5 million. The execs EXPECTED more money and returns on this movie. And they aren’t going to get it, overseas or otherwise. In their eyes, H2 is a failure across the board even before overseas release. And DVD doesn’t even count as it’s a seperate cost to release and distribute those. And remember what I said before, they WILL NOT go out of their way to push the DVD release according to them behind closed doors.
Halloween 2 is not even released in France … 
I do not like the project “Halloween 3D”
oh come on it’s not that much of a difference from 1988 til now. It’s not like we are talking 1930’s movies to 2009 movies… Granted the budget for “Halloween 4” was only around 5 million so it’s profits were substantial but compare that to “Lethal weapon 2” which grossed $147,253,986 in 1989 in the USA alone and $80, 000, 000 in Overseas sales, compare this to $17,768,757 of Halloween 4 and you see what I am saying… it really didnt make that much and again didnt open opposite any giant competition…
Also RZH2 cost 5 million less than RZH to make and was also shown in 400 LESS screens so take all of this into consideration as well as the fact that unlike RZH it had to open directly opposite a highly competitive 3D movie and this little movie didn’t do too bad.
Call it what you want, THEY, the filmmakers and execs are looking at it as a loss. You can love the film until you’re blue in the face, but they took a massive hit and aren’t happy about it.
And comparing an action movie in the 90’s to a horror movie in '88 isn’t a good argument to make. Horror back then made very little, and Halloween after being gone for 10 years came back and did rather well, so well that Moustapha went ahead and greenlit H5 for a release date less than a year after H4’s release…and what happend there? The movie BOMBED, the same way H3D/H3 will bomb. You’re using the argument that it was shown in 400 less theaters as if that’s MY fault LOL ! Ask yourself a question, why do you think it was shown in less screens? Do you know how studios go about putting films in the theater? You should get these answers before you talk about comparing numbers based on theater distribution counts.
In HIS own words “…we were drunk off of the success of Halloween 4, and went ahead with Halloween 5” He then went on to say it was a mistake to do. and he is, was and will forever be right about that. It was a big mistake.
Either way, you can think whatever you’d like about H2, you loved it etc. Fine, doesn’t bother me at all. The numbers speak for themselves. It failed miserably. the studio sees it that way too. I don’t necessarily need you to agree with me, the STUDIO agrees with me. That’s case closed in my eyes.
Okay I don’t want to come off as confrontational here. It’s as simple as this.
I loved RZH2 You Didn’t.
It’s just a matter of taste.
This is probably nit-picking but “Lethal Weapon” was an 80’s not 90’s movie.
Also horror was booming in the late 80’s. The early 90’s is when it died a death.
The “Hellraiser” and “Nightmare on elm street” movies were at their box office peak. For example “Nightmare…4” made $45,166,724 same year as “H4”… “Jacobs Ladder” $26,118,851 “Lost Boys” $32,222,567 even the dreaded “Friday the 13th part 7” made $19,069,488.
I don’t care what is said. RZH2 cost approx $15, 000, 000 to make and so far has grossed $26,928,692 that’s a profit, that’s a hit. Compared to RZH it’s not as substantial but its money has been made back with almost 12 million to spare and it still has to sell overseas. There is whole other world outside North America. This is where it will find its feet. The European audience for example is a lot more open to experimental horror. It’s where the best of horror has come from in the last 5 years. RZH did fantastic business overseas and was welcomed by the critics. This is where you will see it doing extremely well. Just cos it isn’t seen as a hit in the US doesn’t mean it can’t be outside of it. It’s just a pity that a crap film like “FD4” has outsold it… just goes to show that maybe shit really can sell…
Dude, again, you’re NOT paying attention here.
The film was NOT a hit by any means. They spent “x” amount of money to make the film, and they spent “x” amount of money to sell, promote, market and distribute the film. They (ACCORDING TO THEM) have NOT made that money back. Therefore it’s NOT a hit. Even IF it’s a smash in the overseas market, that money doesn’t count towards what it cost them in the US and Canada. The overseas market has/had it’s OWN costs, offices, marketing, promo team etc. So if the film makes big money overseas, it doesn’t count towards the money spent, and the money still owed in the North American market. Don’t forget, they just closed the oversaes and UK offices and fired all staff. Does THAT sound like a fledging company in the overseas market? I think not.
TWC is STILL very much in the hole with accumulating costs coming from all angles. And I’m also not trying to sound confrontational, but I’ll happily take the word of one of Harv and Bob’s good friends of 20 years over your’s. No offense intended here.
Cool.
Point taken.
But it still can’t steal from the fact that I loved RZH2 and that it makes me sad to think “FD4” stole its thunder 
see that was an intellegent hearty debate. . no childish name calling. .
thanks gents for the informitive posts!
cheers!
A